Which is the worst?

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maineman said:
i haven't had a drop., JB... how many margaritas have you put down tonight?
the fact is: Bush lied and took us to war...democrats may have lied, but they did NOT take us to war.

care to dispute that, JB?

I didn't think so...fucking yellow coward.
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ding, ding.....that is as close to honesty as MM will ever get...he will never get any closer to admitting outright that they also lied....i'm proud of you for getting that close.....

:party:


and again...what are those crazy two letter words or initials for words at the end of all your posts lately? some kind of homosexual invitation that you gays from maine do? i decline your passes.....
 
maineman said:
who made the claim of certainty regarding Saddam's WMD's?

who made the claim of certainty regarding the alliance between Saddam and AQ?

WHo tied those two certainties together to make the case for the immediate invasion/conquest/occupation of Iraq?
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bush and many democrats.....

if bush lied, so did the dems....
 
Onceler said:
Yet, you're unable to acknowledge Bush's accountability for Iraq.

And you continue to ignore the remarkably consistent stories told by Colin Powell's aide, Paul O'Neil, Richard Clarke, British intel, a bipartisan Senate committee, et al., that the admin manipulated the intel to make a case for war.

They must all have very active imaginations; I'm sure Bush is telling the truth, and they're all lying.
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Don't mis-state the argument and then claim we are "wrong".....

Of course Bush is accountable for Iraq....why claim we don't know that....
He asked for and received Congressional approval to make a decision on what to do concerning unanimous UN resolutions against Saddam and the common belief that he possessed WMD and constituted a danger.....
He made a decision, like it or not....he acted and opted for an invasion of Iraq and deposing of Saddam ... rather than the air and missile strikes of Clinton that would not achieve any permanent resolution.
 
maineman said:
who made the claim of certainty regarding Saddam's WMD's?

Sen. Jay Rockerfeller (D, WV)
Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA)
Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA)
Al Gore
Sen. Carl Levin (d, MI)
Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL,) and others

who made the claim of certainty regarding the alliance between Saddam and AQ?

Richard Clark...see 911 Com. Report...

WHo tied those two certainties together to make the case for the immediate invasion/conquest/occupation of Iraq?

Those that voted FOR the War Resolution and the Bush Administration
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.:tongout:
 
Onceler said:
Are you kidding? One guy?

Colin Powell's aide. Paul O'Neil. Richard Clarke. Paul Wolfowicz. British intel. An entire Senate (bipartisan) committee & investigation. The list goes on & on & on.

And you can include me if you're covering the timeline after about 2003 or so...

A lot of people have to be lying for your version of reality to be true.

And the idea that the Dems were beating the drums of war in 2002-03 is preposterous. It's an immediate credibility nosedive to make such a claim.

But look at you; who would have thought you'd ever be so interested in giving Dems so much credit for one of Bush's decisions?
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Thats another problem with you....you ignore the timelines of events...what was believed at a particular time, what was believed at later times...what was found to be inaccurate and when it was discovered....
This is what makes your version of events not exactly accurate....and your conclusions .....knowing Iraq had no WMD after the invasion does not make those that were wrong about it...liars....D's or R's....
 
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bravo said:
Thats another problem with you....you ignore the timelines of events...what was believed at a particular time, what was believed at later times...what was found to be inaccurate and when it was discovered....
This is what makes you version of events not exactly accurate....
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I'm not the one posting quotes from '95 as proof that the Dems wanted to invade in 2003.

All of the people I list agree on one thing: the admin manipulated & cherrypicked intel to make a case for war.
 
Onceler said:
Are you kidding? One guy?

Colin Powell's aide. Paul O'Neil. Richard Clarke. Paul Wolfowicz. British intel. An entire Senate (bipartisan) committee & investigation. The list goes on & on & on. A lot of people have to be lying for your version of reality to be true.

And the idea that the Dems were beating the drums of war in 2002-03 is preposterous. It's an immediate credibility nosedive to make such a claim.

But look at you; who would have thought you'd ever be so interested in giving Dems so much credit for one of Bush's decisions?
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Ummm, I guess you didn't know that Saddam Hussein admitted to engaging in a massive bluff about having restarted his WMD program.
 
Onceler said:
I'm not the one posting quotes from '95 as proof that the Dems wanted to invade in 2003.


Again...I never claimed the Dems wanted to invade at any time...
I also don't believe they were ignorant about what the War Resolution vote meant....

All of the people I list agree on one thing: the admin manipulated & cherrypicked intel to make a case for war.
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Thats true of some of them....opinions are like assholes, we, ever they, all have one.....
All one need to do is read the NIE of Oct. 2002 to realize what it says and
and what was believed to be the facts.....there're being wrong is irrelevant, because we didn't KNOW they were wrong at the time.....a choice had to be made about the intel...to accept it or reject it.....
 
maineman said:
I have never made the claims that you ascribe to me.

I have made the claims that, to say that there was NO DOUBT that Saddam had stockpiles of WMD's when the intelligence summaries about that very subject contained caveats and qualifiers as to the certainty of that intelligence, was, in fact, a LIE...and that is certainly true.

The NIE speaks for itself....HIGH CONFIDENCE...Iraq possesses, etc...
no caveats at all....
The fact that others didn't put their faith in the intell or believe the NIE is irrelevant...Bush made his choice, to believe the NIE, to put his faith in the 16 intell. agencys of the US.....obviously a misplaced choice....


there WAS doubt... and Team Bush claimed there wasn't.

For the Bush team "there was no doubt" as per the NIE....
For others it was not so....

LIES
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.

I'm done....
 
Yurt said:
bush and many democrats.....

if bush lied, so did the dems....
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LIAR

shjow me ONE democrat who not only said Saddam had WMD's but also said that Saddam and AQ had an alliance.

of course, we both know that you cannot provide any such democrat....because you are a weasly little liar who tries to pawn himself off as something other than a coffee fetching gofer for relevant folks.

you are truly pathetic.
 
Onceler said:
So...you're unable to do it?

This is fascinating.
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i guess you're unable to honestly call out your fellow dem for the same thing....

that is not surprising....

why is it you feel you are above such actions, but that you can call me out for such actions? i don't answer one of your questions because you're playing a game and this somehow equates to an inability not to.....

not all....if you want an honest debate without the hypocritical calling me out in that same debate for what your fellow lib is doign...i'm all game....let me know
 
maineman said:
LIAR

shjow me ONE democrat who not only said Saddam had WMD's but also said that Saddam and AQ had an alliance.

of course, we both know that you cannot provide any such democrat....because you are a weasly little liar who tries to pawn himself off as something other than a coffee fetching gofer for relevant folks.

you are truly pathetic.
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LOL.....typical maineman....first it was just WMD's....now you've added an entirely new sentence.....nice try, but its nothing but meadowmuffins....

anyone reading this knows you got busted for your lies and now have to be a wuss and CHANGE YOUR STORY yet again

(yawn)
 
Yurt said:
i guess you're unable to honestly call out your fellow dem for the same thing....

that is not surprising....

why is it you feel you are above such actions, but that you can call me out for such actions? i don't answer one of your questions because you're playing a game and this somehow equates to an inability not to.....

not all....if you want an honest debate without the hypocritical calling me out in that same debate for what your fellow lib is doign...i'm all game....let me know
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bullshit.

what have I done that is even CLOSE to what you have done, JB?
 
I had momentarially forgotten about the Iraq /AQ lies perpetrated mostly by the right for war justification.
 
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