Who Won the Debate?

Thorn said:
I agree with Stephanopoulos' comments. I was somewhat dismayed, though not surprised, that McCain completely failed to acknowledge that the ads run by his campaign were personal and negative. Instead he spent considerable time whining about criticism levelled at him for the tone of his campaign by a member of his own party.

Frankly, I don't want a leader who can't recognize and admit his own mistakes and take steps to correct them. The defensive tone of his entire campaign is revolting.
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the best part in the debate for me was when Obama said something to the effect that people don't care about our feelings when McCain was whining about his feelings being hurt.

that was the best jab of all night imo.
 
uscitizen said:
so you two support our potential and actual leaders lying to us and misleading us ?
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Who will be the judge? You? Currently we all are, instead you want some government entity to shut the mouths of people who say things you don't like, especially candidates?

Freedom of speech is the foundation upon which all our other freedoms are built. You either trust Democracy or you need to go somewhere else because I will fight tooth and nail for that freedom in particular and I am not going to let you, or others, curtail it with Big Brother.
 
RStringfield said:
The idea that the government should even consider policing political speech of candidates is frightening. It is bad enough that we are limiting the speech of non candidates. You either trust democracy or you don't.
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This this this! See even people with lots of differing political views can agree on somethings. Damo and String (as well as myself) are right on this one.
 
Damocles said:
Who will be the judge? You? Currently we all are, instead you want some government entity to shut the mouths of people who say things you don't like, especially candidates?

Freedom of speech is the foundation upon which all our other freedoms are built. You either trust Democracy or you need to go somewhere else because I will fight tooth and nail for that freedom in particular and I am not going to let you, or others, curtail it with Big Brother.
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A-friggen-men
 
I watched Morning Joe this morning and Scarborough was talking about watching the debate with someone that was 72 and said that the person made the comment that McCain looked to old to be president
 
Hannity and Colmes conducted a 'text message' poll, and McCain won the debate... 89% to 11% So.....I guess it depends on the poll, huh?

I listened to the debate when it happened live, I couldn't watch it, I was working at that time, and I only caught bits and pieces. I kind of felt like McCain didn't sound as crisp and clear as Obama, and he seemed to be a little angry in tone. My feelings were, he didn't come across as well as he needed to. Later, when I was home, I watched a re-broadcast and SAW the debate for the first time. I had a completely different view. I thought McCain looked good, his body language was good, and Obama looked uncomfortable, nervous, didn't want to make eye contact. After WATCHING the debate, I felt McCain won it. Yeah, I know, none of you are surprised by that.

Here's the thing, and I think Dick Morris nailed it. McCain has now set the tone for the rest of the campaign, and he can win on the issue of taxation... Joe the Plumber Factor! He needs to drop the Ayers/Wright stuff, he got that out there, people can Google it and make up their own minds, but he needs to pound home the point of Obama's plans to tax and spend. We are in tough economic times, and as McCain pointed out, it's no time to be raising ANYONE'S tax! It's also NEVER time to abandon Capitalism and "Spread the Wealth" ...which I think was McCain's most brilliant point in the debate. If he sticks to that message, he can make up serious ground in the final days of this campaign.
 
Dixie said:
Hannity and Colmes conducted a 'text message' poll, and McCain won the debate... 89% to 11% So.....I guess it depends on the poll, huh?

I listened to the debate when it happened live, I couldn't watch it, I was working at that time, and I only caught bits and pieces. I kind of felt like McCain didn't sound as crisp and clear as Obama, and he seemed to be a little angry in tone. My feelings were, he didn't come across as well as he needed to. Later, when I was home, I watched a re-broadcast and SAW the debate for the first time. I had a completely different view. I thought McCain looked good, his body language was good, and Obama looked uncomfortable, nervous, didn't want to make eye contact. After WATCHING the debate, I felt McCain won it. Yeah, I know, none of you are surprised by that.

Here's the thing, and I think Dick Morris nailed it. McCain has now set the tone for the rest of the campaign, and he can win on the issue of taxation... Joe the Plumber Factor! He needs to drop the Ayers/Wright stuff, he got that out there, people can Google it and make up their own minds, but he needs to pound home the point of Obama's plans to tax and spend. We are in tough economic times, and as McCain pointed out, it's no time to be raising ANYONE'S tax! It's also NEVER time to abandon Capitalism and "Spread the Wealth" ...which I think was McCain's most brilliant point in the debate. If he sticks to that message, he can make up serious ground in the final days of this campaign.
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Yeah, he looks real great with his mouth hanging open.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EASpPlcVbdI"]YouTube - MCCAIN'S DEER IN HEADLIGHTS MOMENT[/ame]
 
"Joe the Plumber Factor! "

I hope he does push this, because Joe the Plumber isn't hurt one iota under Obama; he will probably be helped by the healthcare aspect of Obama's plan.

Only 1.4% of small businesses would be affected under Obama's tax plan, and Joe's isn't among them.
 
Onceler said:
"Joe the Plumber Factor! "

I hope he does push this, because Joe the Plumber isn't hurt one iota under Obama; he will probably be helped by the healthcare aspect of Obama's plan.

Only 1.4% of small businesses would be affected under Obama's tax plan, and Joe's isn't among them.
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Well they actually contacted Joe after the debate, and he seems to think Obama's plans would cost him. You keep trotting out this 1.4% figure, is that something the Daily Kos is putting out today? Where did you get that koolaid?

Under Obama's plan, anyone over $250k is going to see a HUGE increase in taxes. It has to be huge to pay for almost a trillion dollars in new spending. The problem is, those who are making over $250k, are also the ones who are providing jobs and growth. What do you think is going to happen to those jobs and that growth, if the tax burden is drastically increased? Let me give you a hint... It damn sure isn't going to help create more!
 
"You keep trotting out this 1.4% figure, is that something the Daily Kos is putting out today? Where did you get that koolaid? "

The non-partisan Tax Policy Center.

If you have actual stats to counter that, with a legit source, please provide it. Otherwise, well....do I have to say it?
 
Both of them had their good points last night.

Obama shot down the Ayers attack with amazing ease, and McCain had a particularly good moment where he told Obama that "I am not George Bush. If you wanted to run against George Bush, you should have run four years ago."

Both of those lines played well among independents, which to me just illustrates the divide between partisans and independents. Solid Republicans wanted McCain to attack Obama on his relationship with Ayers. Solid Democrats wanted Obama to attack McCain as if he were Bush. It seems independents don't care much for either tactic.
 
And Wisey... take a look at that clip again... notice Obama is looking down a lot... not looking me in the eye... every time he talks about tax or spending... he can't manage to look me in the eye! What does that tell me? It tells me he is lying... being completely dishonest about it.... he knows he is, and he can't bring himself to make eye contact because of it.

It's like I said, listening to the debate, I though Obama sounded better than McCain and probably won the debate... watching it, I got a totally different viewpoint, and that was part of it. Obama looked nervous, and he looked like someone who was being dishonest.
 
Beyond that fact that a very small % of small businesses will be negatively impacted by Obama's tax hike on those over $250K, Obama is also offering tax incentives to small businesses who create jobs & keep them in America.

Joe will probably do much better under Obama. But I hope Palin keeps talking about him.
 
Dixie said:
And Wisey... take a look at that clip again... notice Obama is looking down a lot... not looking me in the eye... every time he talks about tax or spending... he can't manage to look me in the eye! What does that tell me? It tells me he is lying... being completely dishonest about it.... he knows he is, and he can't bring himself to make eye contact because of it.

It's like I said, listening to the debate, I though Obama sounded better than McCain and probably won the debate... watching it, I got a totally different viewpoint, and that was part of it. Obama looked nervous, and he looked like someone who was being dishonest.
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Now you think you're a psychologist? By the way, you can't look someone in the eye through a TV. You weren't having a 1 on 1 chat with the guy, and he looked directly into the camera, at McCain, or at the host almost the entire time.

Not even a good try, Dix.
 
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Epicurus said:
Both of them had their good points last night.

Obama shot down the Ayers attack with amazing ease, and McCain had a particularly good moment where he told Obama that "I am not George Bush. If you wanted to run against George Bush, you should have run four years ago."

Both of those lines played well among independents, which to me just illustrates the divide between partisans and independents. Solid Republicans wanted McCain to attack Obama on his relationship with Ayers. Solid Democrats wanted Obama to attack McCain as if he were Bush. It seems independents don't care much for either tactic.
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The line would have been perfect if he had added, "in fact, unlike you, I've actually run against George Bush in an election." I thought about it when I heard him say it, and figured since it was probably a rehearsed line, he should have had that foresight...
 
Epicurus said:
Both of them had their good points last night.

Obama shot down the Ayers attack with amazing ease, and McCain had a particularly good moment where he told Obama that "I am not George Bush. If you wanted to run against George Bush, you should have run four years ago."

Both of those lines played well among independents, which to me just illustrates the divide between partisans and independents. Solid Republicans wanted McCain to attack Obama on his relationship with Ayers. Solid Democrats wanted Obama to attack McCain as if he were Bush. It seems independents don't care much for either tactic.
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I think McCain let him of the hook on the Ayers thing. You could tell McCain wasn't comfortable going there, it's not in his nature to do that sort of thing. However, it is very important to raise the issue, independents need to know that Obama launched his political career in the living room of a domestic terrorist. Obama's response was not much different than the pinhead responses here, but the point is not JUST Ayers. It is the long list of associations Obama has had with radicals, and his consistent pattern of first denying these associations exist, then downplaying the associations and then finally denouncing them. He started out with the Ayers thing, claiming Ayers was just someone who lived in his neighborhood. The same was true with Tony Rezko, he denied even knowing him, until Rev. Wright blew up and released information to the contrary, then he downplayed the association, and denounced away as always. Same thing with Wright... Obama claims he is not Muslim, he is Christian... until his pastor reveals what a radical he is, then suddenly, Obama had no idea this is how he felt, and denounces that association. It is a pattern, and that should have been what McCain pointed out, but McCain is not comfortable doing that.
 
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