who's left of Obama on the economy

Darla said:
Outright lie

Provide evidence or admit you pulled that out of your ass.

I just posted evidence that you're lying.
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Just more proof that you can't or won't read.

I posted five studies that reached conclusions opposite of the ONE you posted.

I see math clearly isn't your strong point, but 1x5=5.
 
The Card study you posted has been widely criticized. Read the link in my original response to see it thoroughly debunked.

It's okay Darla, you win some you lose some.

You lost this one.
 
Your studies all had conclusions that broke down the big picture into little chunks and said stuff like, "Minimum wage hurts teens!" None of them refuted the fact that raising minimum wage leads to better economic growth in states that have done it beyond what the federal limit demands.
 
yeah like I said next year the republicans will be blaming the economic problems and job losses on raising the minimum wage. And if you take a limited sleective view the number can mak it look that way.

Little minds have narrow views.
 
And like I said last year when the minimum wage was increased: Check in a year, this will result in unemployment.

Apparently Darla forgot to tell the economy that minimum wage laws are supposed to increase employment in her world.
 
Epicurus said:
And like I said last year when the minimum wage was increased: Check in a year, this will result in unemployment.

Apparently Darla forgot to tell the economy that minimum wage laws are supposed to increase employment in her world.
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And increased minimum wage caused the finiancial crashes ?
Caused the price of oil ? Tha national Debt ? The dopping dollar ?
 
The problem with significant raises in minimum wage is there are simply jobs out there that are not WORTH what government demands people be paid. The result is employers start minimizing certain types of jobs - even if it means lowered customer service - because the job eliminated does not increase the business income by enough to warrant the position any more. Additionally, there are jobs which can be done cheaper by a person at, say, $5/hr, but can be done cheaper by a machine at $9/hr. So when minimum wage goes above the threshold between cheaper human labor and more expensive machine labor, those jobs get shifted over to the machines.

Small increases in minimum wage, designed to keep minimum wage at an optimal level according to economic growth are a much more sane - and viable - approach. Raising minimum wage in a manner designed to increase the economic power of minimum wage workers will simply yield a net loss for minimum wage workers.
 
Good Luck said:
The problem with significant raises in minimum wage is there are simply jobs out there that are not WORTH what government demands people be paid. The result is employers start minimizing certain types of jobs - even if it means lowered customer service - because the job eliminated does not increase the business income by enough to warrant the position any more. Additionally, there are jobs which can be done cheaper by a person at, say, $5/hr, but can be done cheaper by a machine at $9/hr. So when minimum wage goes above the threshold between cheaper human labor and more expensive machine labor, those jobs get shifted over to the machines.

Small increases in minimum wage, designed to keep minimum wage at an optimal level according to economic growth are a much more sane - and viable - approach. Raising minimum wage in a manner designed to increase the economic power of minimum wage workers will simply yield a net loss for minimum wage workers.
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What's McDonalds going to do? Replace them with a machine? That's ridiculous. Most of the mechanizable fields are either already mechanized or pay way above the minimum wage anyway.
 
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When I worked for minimum wage, the only raises we ever saw were the ones from the government. I moved couches in high school. That's not something that is going to be mechanized anytime soon. Also, it taught me everything I need to know about how small business pays their people. The owners had several homes in Hawaii, several cars, etc., but we never got anything more than min wage despite how long we'd worked there. Disgusting.
 
Topspin said:
laughable Darla, it says liberal think tank in the first paragraph.
you are so cute in you little rant it's funny.
Note to Darla, these are politicians with economics degrees not economist.
They are Jarrod Berstien and the little clinton guy that are brought on CNBC every time they need a turbo-lib to argue against conventional economic theory.
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Robert Reich. He was Bill Clintons secretary of labor. He and Clinton were fellow Rhodies at Oxford where Reich recieved his MA and they were both graduates of Yale Law School.

Reich is not an economist by education, he's a lawyer though he is an expert on Public Policy.
 
ib1yysguy said:
When I worked for minimum wage, the only raises we ever saw were the ones from the government. I moved couches in high school. That's not something that is going to be mechanized anytime soon. Also, it taught me everything I need to know about how small business pays their people. The owners had several homes in Hawaii, several cars, etc., but we never got anything more than min wage despite how long we'd worked there. Disgusting.
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That's why you see fear from conservatives with Obama's emphasis on Unions. Laborers only way to get value for their labor is to organize collectively.

Wallmart is running scared from this. One of the most profitable corporations in America the greedy bastards don't want to share a slice of the pie with their own employees. If there's any one company in this nation that desperately needs a union to protect the interest of it's workers, it's Wallmart. The sooner the better. (in Full disclosure I abhor Wally Worlds business practices and I do not shop there as I find most of their merchandise to be cheap and shoddy.).
 
Topspin said:
you could be more full of shit or yourself,
I'm not buying consensus of economist think raising minimum wage $3hr is a good thing.
I listen to economist daily and though mostly supply siders I'd say they woulnd not be in lock step at all with that.
And you have shown no economics expertise, that has nothing what so ever to do with sexist. But you do get lame ass comeback points for the try.
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I thought you had more sense then to listen to supply sidders? Hell that's just code for cut taxes for the rich and raise them on the middle class, isnt' it? :pke:
 
ib1yysguy said:
When I worked for minimum wage, the only raises we ever saw were the ones from the government. I moved couches in high school. That's not something that is going to be mechanized anytime soon. Also, it taught me everything I need to know about how small business pays their people. The owners had several homes in Hawaii, several cars, etc., but we never got anything more than min wage despite how long we'd worked there. Disgusting.
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You may THINK moving couches cannot be mechanized soon. But I have seen electric/hydraulic carts designed to allow one person to move furniture that it currently takes two people to move - and do so faster. Furniture stores could just send out one guy in a truck with a good hydraulic cart to deliver a dozen or more couches, refrigerators, recliners, etc. around the town where it used to take two guys in a truck all day to deliver 8 or 10. Two guys in two trucks using two electric/hydraulic carts can do the work of six guys in three trucks using common hand carts.

Of course those carts have a hefty price tag. Currently only very large furniture stores use them. Most furniture stores rely on human muscle because it is currently less expensive. But if the government drives labor costs up beyond keeping them equal with economic growth, and it will become economical to buy those expensive hydraulic carts, and cut laborers. So in the example above, suddenly 4 guys are out of work, and the company can sell one of their trucks, eliminating that cost also. And that is just moving furniture, which was your chosen "it wouldn't affect MY situation" anecdotal rebuttal.

I don't suppose you have noticed the trend in many larger grocery and department stores to have replaced half or more of their traditional checkout stands with self-service checkout? Those stands are also expensive. But recent increases in labor costs, coupled with recent advances in the technology have made them more affordable in comparison to paying cashiers. Additional increases - especially a $3/hr jump - will result in your seeing self-service checkout in smaller stores, not just the bigger ones. (I personally never use self checkout - but I see more and more people using them as they get used to the idea.)

Unlike some arguing against minimum wage, I do support minimum wage laws. I do not believe market forces are enough to keep wages at a reasonable level. But REASONABLE is the operative word. I support reasonable increases, designed to keep minimum wage level with the economy. More than that will cause more harm to the labor market than it will help.
 
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Mottleydude said:
That's why you see fear from conservatives with Obama's emphasis on Unions. Laborers only way to get value for their labor is to organize collectively.

Wallmart is running scared from this. One of the most profitable corporations in America the greedy bastards don't want to share a slice of the pie with their own employees. If there's any one company in this nation that desperately needs a union to protect the interest of it's workers, it's Wallmart. The sooner the better. (in Full disclosure I abhor Wally Worlds business practices and I do not shop there as I find most of their merchandise to be cheap and shoddy.).
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Wal Mart operates on some of the lowest profit margins of any industry. I'm sorry if it makes me selfish but I refuse to drive fifty miles to go and buy at a mall whenever Wal-Mart is right there.
 
Watermark said:
Well nine dollars worked in the fifties, whenever the nation wasn't as wealthy as now. Nine dollars an hour is reasonable now.
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Want to point out the law from the 50s that set minimum wage at $9/hr?

Sorry, but there are some jobs that simply are NOT worth $9/hr. Push in a minimum wage that high and a whole bunch of jobs will disappear. One job I can think of right now is baggers at grocery stores. They are a nice part of customer service and help move customers through faster during busy times, but they will go by the wayside if stores are forced to pay them $9/hr or more. Such a service simply does not provide the business $9/hr worth of benefit derived from the labor.

And there are many other job types in the same situation. They can either be done without - lowering customer service; or they can be replaced by automation which is currently more expensive than minimum wage labor.
 
Good Luck said:
Want to point out the law from the 50s that set minimum wage at $9/hr?
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graph.png


I must have missed whenever everyone got rid of all of their checkout people in 1970.

And I was off by ten years. My memories bad...
 
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ib1yysguy said:
Washington state is a great example. In fact, people drive from Idaho (with a much lower minimum wage) to find jobs. Not to mention, they spend money while they're here and our economy is much stronger. And it got stronger after we raised the minimum wage a few years back.
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This is utter bullshit.
 
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