Why did our founding fathers hate corporations?

bravo said:
Its me....

An intellectual and political movement in favor of political, economic, and social conservatism that arose in opposition to the liberalism of the 1960s

I actually was a Democrat until LBJ came along to fuckup a war an saddle us with "the Great Society" that can't be paid for by the next 50 generations.
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It seems that there are several definitions. I don't feel the need to prefix conservatism.
 
Topspin said:
you weren't an economics or business major in college.
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I started as a psychology/sociology major, then switched to pre-pharmacy. I had to quit college after about 2 1/2 years when my mom died at 47 and my dad was terminally ill. I was the oldest of 3...my sister was 13 and my brother was 7. I got a job and raised my sister and brother with the help of my grandparents and other family members.
 
Bfgrn said:
I started as a psychology/sociology major, then switched to pre-pharmacy. I had to quit college after about 2 1/2 years when my mom died at 47 and my dad was terminally ill. I was the oldest of 3...my sister was 13 and my brother was 7. I got a job and raised my sister and brother with the help of my grandparents and other family members.
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God what a loser. Non- mbas are bums who should starve.
 
Bfgrn said:
I've also seen the corporations that don't value their employees. There is short term gains at the expense of others but rarely as much as they could gain.

I used to frequent a restaurant where I'd meet up with my motorcycle buddies. The owner started the business as a small take out hot dog stand, and turned it into a family restaurant chain. He built new, beautiful and innovative structures and had a booming business. He would always walk around and greet the customers and ask how their meal was etc. And he always made sure people got a little more than less portions for their money.

When he retired, his sons took over. The sons were 'smarter' than the old man. The one son said to the other; you know Bob, if we use a smaller scoop for the mashed potatoes, cut back on the pea and only serve one basket of bread we can make 5 cents more per meal. The restaurant the dad started no longer exists. (I made up the conversation, but not the outcome)
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Whats your point? Thats exactly as it should be....thats what confirms the theory of natural selection...

Corporations that abuse their workers and/or customers don't last very long......and of course, If you're not narrow-minded, you'll see the opposite is also true.

Workers that abuse their employers and ignore their responsibilities won't have jobs very long...

We've had some very good examples of that recently haven't we....
(GM...Teachers Union)

so stop your whining....
 
bravo said:
Whats your point? Thats exactly as it should be....thats what confirms the theory of natural selection...

Corporations that abuse their workers and/or customers don't last very long......and of course, If you're not narrow-minded, you'll see the opposite is also true.

Workers that abuse their employers and ignore their responsibilities won't have jobs very long...

We've had some very good examples of that recently haven't we....
(GM...Teachers Union)

so stop your whining....
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Wrong. The corporations get bailed out, and cartels, monopolies and cronyism keeps the free market you think exists from actually existing. You live inside a neocon chimera of lies.
 
bravo said:
Whats your point? Thats exactly as it should be....thats what confirms the theory of natural selection...

Corporations that abuse their workers and/or customers don't last very long......and of course, If you're not narrow-minded, you'll see the opposite is also true.

Workers that abuse their employers and ignore their responsibilities won't have jobs very long...

We've had some very good examples of that recently haven't we....
(GM...Teachers Union)

so stop your whining....
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I'm not whining...it seems you are the one that is whining. Our founding fathers didn't 'hate' corporations, and they didn't hate their seminal achievement...government. And it is clear that they chose government as the best entity to protect the rights of the people. They were not concerned with America being a world power, they were concerned with America being a world class society that was a bastion of freedom and liberty.
 
AssHatZombie said:
Wrong. The corporations get bailed out, and cartels, monopolies and cronyism keeps the free market you think exists from actually existing. You live inside a neocon chimera of lies.
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Okay, but even then, corporations can't get "bailed out" forever! At some point, they bankrupt the governments who are bailing them out, or they fail. The free market still exists.
 
Bfgrn said:
I'm not whining...it seems you are the one that is whining. Our founding fathers didn't 'hate' corporations, and they didn't hate their seminal achievement...government. And it is clear that they chose government as the best entity to protect the rights of the people. They were not concerned with America being a world power, they were concerned with America being a world class society that was a bastion of freedom and liberty.
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Your thread title is a bit misleading, it seems to indicate you think the Founding Fathers hated corporations, but here, you claim they didn't hate them.

Let's introduce a bit of historical perspective here... In 1776, an entity described as a "corporation" was likely owned by a government, or royal family. The idea of "public corporations" had not yet taken off, because the world didn't have freedom and liberty, we hadn't come up with the Constitution yet. Now, we have very few corporations owned by governments or royalty, most are public. So there has been a dramatic change in what we define as a "corporation" between the time of our Founding Fathers, and now.
 
Bfgrn said:
I started as a psychology/sociology major, then switched to pre-pharmacy. I had to quit college after about 2 1/2 years when my mom died at 47 and my dad was terminally ill. I was the oldest of 3...my sister was 13 and my brother was 7. I got a job and raised my sister and brother with the help of my grandparents and other family members.
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So in other words, you didn't graduate college.
 
Yes why would one glean hate corporationts from a title of why our founding fathers hated corporations.
See Bf, your a nice guy and I'm right with you on the social issues. But I was correct, not only do you not have a business or economics degree you don't even have a liberal arts degrees. I find it amusing and often hillarious the anti business types are most frequently under educated.
 
Bfgrn you made a big mistake by arguing with Topspin and mentioning your lack of education. Now he'll trump you in every argument about that.

He tried that with me, but I'm better educated than him. Then he tried "trailer trash", but I have a nicer house than he does (actually two of them). Then he tried income, but I make more than he does. So he put me on ignore. I see he's been touting his overall wealth accumulation but I have him beat on that as well. :)
 
Topspin said:
Yes why would one glean hate corporationts from a title of why our founding fathers hated corporations.
See Bf, your a nice guy and I'm right with you on the social issues. But I was correct, not only do you not have a business or economics degree you don't even have a liberal arts degrees. I find it amusing and often hillarious the anti business types are most frequently under educated.
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Don't tell my you're trying to convince us that the entire Obama administration, along with hundreds of Democrats in Congress are undereducated.....
or are you implying all those Democrats aren't anti-business and anti-corporation?

Or are you just blowing smoke with your seemingly useless education as usual?

Which is it?
 
Topspin said:
Yes why would one glean hate corporationts from a title of why our founding fathers hated corporations.
See Bf, your a nice guy and I'm right with you on the social issues. But I was correct, not only do you not have a business or economics degree you don't even have a liberal arts degrees. I find it amusing and often hillarious the anti business types are most frequently under educated.
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Tell me Einstein...how did I thrive in a business and economic world at 100% commission? Full commission means you don't get paid if you fail to perform. It is a high reward with high risk.

I have yet to hear anything from you on economics that would be considered a learned argument.

I don't hate corporations, and neither did our founding fathers, but they certainly believed in very heavy regulation of corporations and strong consumer protection. It seems to me that you can't make the connection between social issues and economic issues. The very high number of families filing bankruptcy can be traced to many of the scurrilous lending practices corporate and bank lobbyists have made 'lawful'....but they are still scurrilous and deceptive.

When you make yourself rich by making someone else poor, that is not a free market, it is a captured market. You seem totally obtuse to those connections.
 
Bfgrn said:
Tell me Einstein...how did I thrive in a business and economic world at 100% commission? Full commission means you don't get paid if you fail to perform. It is a high reward with high risk.

I have yet to hear anything from you on economics that would be considered a learned argument.

I don't hate corporations, and neither did our founding fathers, but they certainly believed in very heavy regulation of corporations and strong consumer protection. It seems to me that you can't make the connection between social issues and economic issues. The very high number of families filing bankruptcy can be traced to many of the scurrilous lending practices corporate and bank lobbyists have made 'lawful'....but they are still scurrilous and deceptive.

When you make yourself rich by making someone else poor, that is not a free market, it is a captured market. You seem totally obtuse to those connections.
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Bfoon, I won't say a word about your education, what matters is your mind. In your head, you have a very immature and naive, almost infantile, view of what things were like in the past. I have noted this in other threads on other topics as well, it's nothing personal, you just don't expand your mind enough to realize things haven't always been as they are. From that perspective, you assume that "corporations" and the concerns our founding fathers may have had regarding regulation of them, is somehow transposed to how we should view "corporations" in modern times. This is just plain foolish.

I have a good friend in Birmingham, he owns an electrical contracting business. He has a retail outlet, where customers can come to the showroom and look at the various lighting and such, and he employs dozens of people, who go out and install the stuff, sell the stuff, keep track of the business, etc. HE is a modern "corporation" because he is "incorporated!" His business made over $3 million last year, but he is not what I would consider "uber-wealthy" by any means. He does live in a nice house, and his kids have nice stuff, and I guess he is doing okay financially, but he is not a rich greedy robber baron. Nowadays, THIS is the rule and not the exception, when it comes to "corporations" and there are very few "monopolies" left in America.

Putting this in historical perspective, do you know and understand, what would have happened to my friend described above? Well, when he first had the vision to start his business, and started making good money at it... some European King would come along with his army, and take his property...maybe even kill him. Then, they would own the wealth from his vision, not him. This was what "corporations" mostly represented in the mid-1700s, around the world. This was why our Founding Fathers had deep concerns about our government having the means to regulate them. But the definition of what a "corporation" was in 1750, is not the same as it is today.
 
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