Why Should Anyone Believe in Global Warming?

[Into the Night]

Well then my answer would be no, because there would be an average temperature increase. If you have a car sitting in the sun, with the windows down, then the temperature in the car and outside the car would be relatively equal. The inside of the car may be a little bit warmer - let's say 87 degrees in and 85 degrees out = average of 86. If you close the windows, and keep the energy from the sun the same, the inside of the car would increase - let's say it gets to 100. (100 + 85)/2 = 92.5 Explained above. There's always energy being added to the earth - 24 hours a day/7 days a week. If you're saying the thermal energy is still flowing from inside to outside the car, then yes. I'm not saying there's more gross energy, I'm just saying that energy is constantly being added to the earth, even if it's not where you are, it's still happening somewhere all the time.

You are saying there is more 'gross energy'. You are STILL trying to create energy out of nothing. No gas or vapor is capable of warming the Earth. You are STILL ignoring the 1st law of thermodynamics.

 

[Into the Night]

Yes. It comes from the Sun.

CO2 does not increase the Sun's output. You are still ignoring the 1st law of thermodynamics.

I'm saying that the current amount of energy from the sun is sufficient for global warming/climate change to happen under the right conditions,

Climate cannot change. No gas or vapor is capable of warming the Earth.

just as the current amount of energy from the sun is sufficient to heat the inside of a car.

The Earth is not a car.

In the same way that the "global" temperature on the inside of a car can change as conditions change the distribution of energy.

The Earth is not a car.

If you have a car with no glass at all, sitting in the sun, and you then add a windshield... rear window and start closing individual windows, one at a time, you will see an increase in temperature inside the car AND you will see an increase in the average temperature between the inside/outside of the car.

The Earth is not a car.

 

[Into the Night]

Yes, you can. I've posted the examples of a car with windows closed and/or a tent sitting in the sun. The energy from the sun does not change, but there is a significant increase in temperature.

The Earth is not a car.

 

[Into the Night]

I disagree because the apples are a static quantity. Nobody is constantly adding apples that then have to be moved to equalize quantities.

YOU effectively are.

The sun is constantly adding energy which creates warmer air.

You just ignored the Stefan-Boltzmann law again.

I don't think I disagree with anything you said above. The point is that, with an unchanging amount of energy from the sun, the inside of a car CAN dramatically increase in temperature under specific circumstances.

Earth is not a car.

The belief for how climate change works

Climate cannot change. It is not work either.

is that CO2, and other greenhouse gases, create the "specific circumstances" that heat the atmosphere more as the CO2 level increases

You are now ignoring the 1st law of thermodynamics again. You cannot create energy out of nothing.

because of how CO2 interacts with the wave length of infrared light leaving the earth, to warm the atmosphere.

ALL gases absorb infrared light. You cannot trap light. Homunculus fallacy. CO2 is not intelligent. It absorbs infrared light from the Sun as well.

As I mentioned earlier, it's not a coincidence that Venus, with an atmosphere that is 95% CO2, has double the average temperature of Mercury, which is millions of miles closer to the sun.

The temperature of Venus is unknown. The temperature of Mercury is unknown. You are again denying the ideal gas law.

As far as how it works:

When sunlight reaches Earth, the surface absorbs some of the light’s energy and reradiates it as infrared waves,

Now you are denying quantum mechanics. Absorption of a photon DESTROYS the photon. It is not 'reradiated'.

which we feel as heat. (Hold your hand over a dark rock on a warm sunny day and you can feel this phenomenon for yourself.)

Is that because it has a blanket over it?

These infrared waves travel up into the atmosphere and will escape back into space if unimpeded.

You cannot trap light.

Oxygen and nitrogen don’t interfere with infrared waves in the atmosphere.

ALL gases absorb infrared light.

That’s because molecules are picky about the range of wavelengths that they interact with, Smerdon explained.

He's wrong. ALL gases absorb infrared light.

For example, oxygen and nitrogen absorb energy that has tightly packed wavelengths of around 200 nanometers or less, whereas infrared energy travels at wider and lazier wavelengths of 700 to 1,000,000 nanometers.

ALL gases absorb infrared light.

Those ranges don’t overlap, so to oxygen and nitrogen, it’s as if the infrared waves don’t even exist;

ALL gases absorb infrared light.

they let the waves (and heat) pass freely through the atmosphere.

Light is not heat. You cannot trap light. You are ignoring the Stefan-Boltzmann law again.

With CO2 and other greenhouse gases, it’s different. Carbon dioxide, for example, absorbs energy at a variety of wavelengths between 2,000 and 15,000 nanometers — a range that overlaps with that of infrared energy.

So?

As CO2 soaks up this infrared energy, it vibrates and re-emits the infrared energy back in all directions.

Nope. An absorbed photon is DESTROYED. It is not re-emitted.

About half of that energy goes out into space, and about half of it returns to Earth as heat, contributing to the ‘greenhouse effect.’

You cannot heat the warmer surface using a colder gas. You are ignoring the 2nd law of thermodynamics again.

Smerdon says that the reason why some molecules absorb infrared waves and some don’t “depends on their geometry and their composition.”

He's wrong. ALL gases absorb infrared light.

He explained that oxygen and nitrogen molecules are simple — they’re each made up of only two atoms of the same element — which narrows their movements and the variety of wavelengths they can interact with.

He's wrong. ALL gases absorb infrared light.

But greenhouse gases like CO2 and methane are made up of three or more atoms, which gives them a larger variety of ways to stretch and bend and twist. That means they can absorb a wider range of wavelengths — including infrared waves.

There is no such thing as a 'greenhouse gas' except as a religious artifact. ALL gases absorb infrared light.

There are any number of videos demonstrating how CO2 interacts with infrared energy:
...deleted parlor trick...

You can't heat a warmer surface using a colder gas. You are still ignoring the 2nd law of thermodynamics.
You can't heat anything simply by the presence of CO2. You are still ignoring the 1st law of thermodynamics.
You cannot trap light or heat. You are still ignoring the Stefan-Boltzmann law.
You have also ignored the ideal gas law, quantum mechanics, and Planck's laws.

No gas or vapor is capable of warming the Earth.

 

[Into the Night]

"Physics denial.

Here you are still attempting to create additional thermal energy out of nothing."

"I'm" not doing anything but stating what we ALL know to be true, or do you disagree that the inside of a car gets hotter with windows closed, when sitting in the sun?

RQAA.
The Earth is not a car.

 

[Into the Night]

Correct. The EXISTING energy (meaning NO additional energy being magically created) warms the air inside the car.

Again, NO ADDITIONAL ENERGY BEING MAGICALLY ADDED.

The Earth is not a car.

 

[Into the Night]

Yes, which is what greenhouse gases do. The infrared energy is "absorbed" by CO2 and other greenhouse gases, they then radiate that energy, some of which goes back into the atmosphere and toward the earth, which warms it.

You cannot heat a warmer surface using a colder gas. You are still ignoring the 2nd law of thermodynamics.

NOTE: No magical creation of energy is needed or implied.

Yet you are attempting to heat the Earth from a non-energy source. You are STILL trying to create energy out of nothing, ignoring the 1st law of thermodynamics.

The video I posted above demonstrates that CO2 absorbs infrared light.

So?

Other videos, of which there are many, show how CO2 increases temperature when hit with infrared light.

So?

Surprising that no ambitious climate change denier has posted their own video proving all of them wrong.

Climate cannot change.

"... and you have eliminated any possible increase in the average temperature."

Now you ignore the 0th law of thermodynamics. There is no such thing as 'average temperature'.

I already posted an example, using the car example, of how average temperature increases can happen.

The Earth is not a car. You are still ignoring the 0th law of thermodynamics.

 

[gfm7175]

Yep, well when people keep implying there's some type of violation of the first law of thermodynamics, I'm inclined to repeatedly point out the fact that there's no magic happening.

Here, ZenMode covers his eyes and ears and pretends that "... nobody is saying that energy is created out of nothing ..." while simultaneously and desperately trying to create energy out of nothing.

It's no my fault you and others stick to your misguided guns.

Here, ZenMode attempts to blame others for his decision to deny physics.

I've pointed out probably over a dozen times how the inside of a car get considerable warmer by closing the windows, despite the fact that there is NO additional energy brought into existence. Closing car windows does NOT change the amount of energy entering/hitting the car.

Here, ZenMode continues his broken record purposeful OMISSION of the outside of a car getting considerably cooler by closing the windows, thus the average temperature of the car remains the same. ZenMode still believes that simply relocating thermal energy can somehow create additional thermal energy, "without creating any additional thermal energy", of course.

Do you believe in magic?!?! ZenMode sure does!

 

[gfm7175]

No response?

If you have seven apples (four in Basket A, three in Basket B), what is the average number of apples per basket? Let's call this 'Result A'.

If you move two of the apples from Basket B into Basket A (so now there are six in Basket A, one in Basket B), what is the average number of apples per basket? Let's call this 'Result B'.

Is 'Result A' different than 'Result B'? If not, then why do you falsely claim that moving your apples between baskets somehow creates additional apples?

No response?

 

[gfm7175]

"... and you have eliminated any possible increase in the average temperature."

I already posted an example, using the car example, of how average temperature increases can happen.

... and I already posted a rebuttal of your flawed car example, and explained why your claimed "average temperature increase" is really just an attempt by you to create additional thermal energy out of nothing.

 

[Trumpet]

... and I already posted a rebuttal of your flawed car example, and explained why your claimed "average temperature increase" is really just an attempt by you to create additional thermal energy out of nothing.

Like you know what you're talking about.

 

[ZenMode]

Here, ZenMode covers his eyes and ears and pretends that "... nobody is saying that energy is created out of nothing ..." while simultaneously and desperately trying to create energy out of nothing.

Explain how closing the windows in a car creates energy out of nothing?

Here, ZenMode attempts to blame others for his decision to deny physics.


Here, ZenMode continues his broken record purposeful OMISSION of the outside of a car getting considerably cooler by closing the windows,

The outside of the car doesn't get cooler because the windows are closed. The outside of the car is what it's going to be.

thus the average temperature of the car remains the same.

The inside of the car is hotter. Period. There's no way around it.

ZenMode still believes that simply relocating thermal energy can somehow create additional thermal energy, "without creating any additional thermal energy", of course.

Closing the windows on a car doesn't create energy.

Do you believe in magic?!?! ZenMode sure does!

 

[ZenMode]

... and I already posted a rebuttal of your flawed car example, and explained why your claimed "average temperature increase" is really just an attempt by you to create additional thermal energy out of nothing.

Which part of this do you disagree with:

85 degrees outside of the car. 87 degrees inside the car with the windows open. Average temperature is 86 degrees.

85 degrees outside the car. 100 degrees inside the car with the windows closed. Average temperature is (100+85)/2 = 92.5.

 

[ZenMode]

You are saying there is more 'gross energy'. You are STILL trying to create energy out of nothing. No gas or vapor is capable of warming the Earth. You are STILL ignoring the 1st law of thermodynamics.

Do you disagree that the inside of the car is warmer?

 

[ZenMode]

No response?

Nice try. A great example of REPLYING to a question while intentionally avoiding ANSWERING the question.

Here's the question I asked:

do you disagree that the inside of a car gets hotter with windows closed, when sitting in the sun?

 

[ZenMode]

The level of tap dancing here is pretty amazing. We ALL know that the inside of a car gets hotter when the windows are closed without magically creating any energy, yet the spin/avoidance around that simple acknowledgement continues.

Desperation is an ugly color.

No problem, though. I'm very patient. Keep the dishonesty going. It's not hurting me at all.

 

[IBDaMann]

... they then radiate that energy, some of which goes back into the [much cooler] atmosphere and toward the [much warmer] earth, which warms [the much warmer earth]

Nope. Violation of the 2nd LoT. Let me know when you can increase the temperature of warm coffee with an ice cube. Until then, your arguments are dismissed. Every single one violates physics in some obvious and egregious way.

NOTE: No magical creation of energy is needed or implied.

Right. You abruptly shifted away from violating the 1st LoT and began egregiously violating the 2nd LoT.

The video I posted above demonstrates that CO2 absorbs infrared light.

Everything absorbs IR. Did you know that the restaurant industry learned this long ago?

 

[Into the Night]

Like you know what you're talking about.

RQAA

 

[Into the Night]

Explain how closing the windows in a car creates energy out of nothing? The outside of the car doesn't get cooler because the windows are closed. The outside of the car is what it's going to be. The inside of the car is hotter. Period. There's no way around it.

Closing the windows on a car doesn't create energy.

The Earth is not a car.

 

[Into the Night]

Do you disagree that the inside of the car is warmer?

The Earth is not a car.