Why Should Anyone Believe in Global Warming?

I don't know if you are one of the new, far right anti-science people, a troll or just insane, but I'm not going to waste my time responding every unfounded claim and useless declaration you make.
Hilarious. No you refer to the 1st and 2nd laws of thermodynamics and the Stefan-Boltzmann law as 'useless declarations' and 'unfounded claims'.
The current composition of the Earth's atmosphere manages temperatures
Nothing manages temperatures. The atmosphere is not a thermostat.
which makes life on Earth possible.
The presence of oxygen, hydrogen, nitrogen, carbon dioxide, and liquid water make life possible.
It does this without violating any of the laws you have repeatedly mentioned.
The atmosphere doesn't manage anything. It is not a thermostat or any other control device.
It stands to reason, if you are able to reason, that if the atmosphere is able to regulate temperatures
The atmosphere does not regulate anything.
then changes to the atmosphere could impact the regulation of temperatures.
The atmosphere does not regulate anything.
That's really all that there has to be to realize that global warming, climate change or whatever you want to call it is possible.
It is what YOU want to call it. It's YOUR religion. Climate cannot change. It is not possible to measure the temperature of the Earth.

No gas or vapor has the capability to warm the Earth.

You cannot trap heat.
You cannot trap light.
You cannot heat a warmer surface using a colder gas.
You cannot trap thermal energy. There is always heat.
You cannot create energy out of nothing.
 
Your choice of words is everything because this is a discussion forum and words are all we have. You are responsible for writing what you mean and meaning what you write.


Wrong wording, and your job is to write the correct wording for what you wish to express. The energy from a candle is not "a wavelength" but rather "a signature" or "a curve" defined by Wein's law. Your parlor trick appears to have captivated your interest, so you might as well understand the science behind trick. Now that this has been expressly brought to your attention, any future violations of Wein's law will be expressed as "ZenMode Error: Wein's law".

Planck's law establishes the foundation for blackbody science.
Stefan-Boltzmann defines the radiance of a body of matter given its temperature (and emissivity).
Wein's law defines the specific emission signature of a body of matter given its temperature.
Kirchhoff's law establishes the equivalence between a body's radiativity and a body's emissivity.

If you were to brush up on these, you wouldn't make a third of the errors that you make. Of course, you probably wouldn't maintain your particular religious faith on account of its dogma egregiously violating a wide range of science and denying the rest. But think of it, you wouldn't ever have to stammer " ... but, but, ... you're misapplying physics in this case by applying physics in this case!"


Oooops, party foul! The parlor trick is not an experiment. You don't know what an "experiment" is, do you? You think it means "demonstration," don't you? This is another term that you attempt to hijack at the behest of your religion so that you can try to make your religion sound "sciency." So the list of terms you don't understand is now "1. heat, 2. science, 3. experiment". You apply these science terms to your religion to give the false appearance that what you preach is thettled thienth. However, in a forum such as this in which words are all we have, it is an egregious foul to hijack the very words needed to carry a discussion. Your stupid parlor trick fooled you because you are gullible and easily fall victim to any such con. What your parlor trick is not ... is an experiment.


Nope. All IR interacting with atmospheric CO2 is, by definition, not leaving the earth. It is, in fact, flowing specifically from the earth to the earth. We are not concerned with any of that energy; it is merely redistributing itself. Please stay focused on only the energy leaving the earth.


Meaningless. Talk to me about the hypothetical/fictitious scenario in which it would be possible for a non-zero amount of energy to be "captured".


Wrong wording. It cannot have been "recognized" because it is FALSE.

Also, warmizombies such as yourself are gullible, and you willingly regurgitate whatever you are told to believe by your thought-masters. John Tyndall and Svante Arrhenius made no contributions to science. Yes, they both wrote papers on CO2, but all of their conclusions were subsequently falsified. An obedient warmizombie will never wonder why none of their work was ever taught in any science class; all he will know is that he was instructed to preach that they omnisciently "knew" the "truth" of the dogma of Climate Change and that they published sacred "texts" on the matter. You should now begin to get a clearer picture of just how stupid and gullible warmizombies are, and why they are targeted for recruitment by the Church of Global Warming. They will believe anything as long as it is sufficiently absurd. Yes, you are in that category and fortunately you have me to help you snap out of your delerium, but you sure do give me a load of resistance. Why didn't you resist your recruiters to this extent? If you had, you wouldn't be wandering through life in such a confused haze as you are now.

Anyway, one of the glaring warning flags that warmizombies unwarily wave is the absurd pretense of speaking for dead people who can never participate in the conversation and who can never be cross-examined. As such, any future waving of this particular warning flag will be identified as "ZenMode Error: Pretending to Speak for Dead People." If you wish to bring Tyndall's and Arrhenius' papers into the discussion, I will be glad to shred them in short order for you.


ZenMode Error. The atmosphere is part of the earth. There is nothing about the atmosphere that somehow takes the earth out of equilibrium or that somehow slows electromagnetic radiation. I have no idea what you even think you mean by this quip.


I am the one who taught you that, remember? You were the one who had greenhouse gas magically creating thermal energy and who had to subsequently backpedal away from that. I'm glad you learned at least that much. Your problem at this point is your inability to account for the additional thermal energy that you claim is the increase in temperature that you cannot show even exists. Whenever you go down this road, you end up confessing that there is no additional thermal energy (in order to remain within the 1st LoT) and leave the conclusion that there is therefore no increase in temperature, which is what I have been asserting all along. So I appreciate you putting in the extra effort and going the extra mile to make my case. Thank you .


I don't know how many times this chanting of playing dumb needs to be put down but what specifically can you not read in my signature? Maybe yours is more of an English problem than a science problem.

Sigh....still focusing a lot of your responses on me, not the actual topic.

I never said greenhouse gases create energy. In fact, a lack of creating energy was the entire focus of the , what, 7 days and 8 pages of me trying to establish that the inside of a car gets hotter DESPITE no additional energy from the sun. The entire focus, or what I've been trying to focus on, has been the fact that CO2 and other greenhouse gases, absorbs IR energy and, because of it's molecular make-up, radiated that absorbed energy in the form of thermal energy that then warms the atmosphere/earth.

If you don't believe this process, or something very similar, is happening, what is it that you believe the atmosphere is doing to regulate the high and low temperatures?
 

You: Nothing manages temperatures. The atmosphere is not a thermostat.

Me: which makes life on Earth possible.

You: The presence of oxygen, hydrogen, nitrogen, carbon dioxide, and liquid water make life possible.


Great example of word games and time wasting. You know what I meant when I said "managing", because you literally reference it one post later, but still you troll....

You also admit that the gases in the atmosphere make life possible, (by regulating temperature swings) but yet won't acknowledge that changes in the composition of the atmosphere could impact that regulating.
 
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Sigh....still focusing a lot of your responses on me, not the actual topic.
RE: the topic --- your stupid religion has already been thoroughly walloped "six different ways to Sunday".

I never said greenhouse gases create energy.
Continued QED. Yes, whenever your physics denial gets called out, THEN you "never said that", HOWEVER your stupid physics-denying religion NEEEEEEEEEEEEDS "greenhouse gases" to magically "create energy" since "you never said that additional thermal energy is coming from the sun". Round and round you go.

In fact, a lack of creating energy was the entire focus of the , what, 7 days and 8 pages of me trying to establish that the inside of a car gets hotter DESPITE no additional energy from the sun.
Word of the day: CONVECTION

The entire focus, or what I've been trying to focus on, has been the fact that CO2 and other greenhouse gases, absorbs IR energy and, because of it's molecular make-up, radiated that absorbed energy in the form of thermal energy that then warms the atmosphere/earth.
Redistributing thermal energy from one part of Earth to another part of Earth is not adding any thermal energy to Earth. Earth's temperature remains the same. To increase Earth's temperature, you need ADDITIONAL thermal energy. Where is this ADDITIONAL thermal energy coming from assuming constant output from the Sun?
 
RE: the topic --- your stupid religion has already been thoroughly walloped "six different ways to Sunday".


Continued QED. Yes, whenever your physics denial gets called out, THEN you "never said that", HOWEVER your stupid physics-denying religion NEEEEEEEEEEEEDS "greenhouse gases" to magically "create energy" since "you never said that additional thermal energy is coming from the sun". Round and round you go.


Word of the day: CONVECTION


Redistributing thermal energy from one part of Earth to another part of Earth is not adding any thermal energy to Earth. Earth's temperature remains the same. To increase Earth's temperature, you need ADDITIONAL thermal energy. Where is this ADDITIONAL thermal energy coming from assuming constant output from the Sun?

What happens to the energy leaving the Earth's surface now that makes the Earth habitable?
 
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A good rule of thumb is to not get your news, especially science news and information, from social media. For that matter, you also shouldn't get your science information from any news outlets, vice presidents or teenagers... I'm referring to Al Gore and Greta whatever her name is.

Science isn't a news outlet, social media, or religion.
You religious belief in the Church of Global Warming is not science.
 
Sigh....still focusing a lot of your responses on me, not the actual topic.
There is no 'topic'. Just your incessant preaching.
I never said greenhouse gases create energy.
Blatant lie.
In fact, a lack of creating energy was the entire focus of the , what, 7 days and 8 pages of me trying to establish that the inside of a car gets hotter DESPITE no additional energy from the sun.
The Earth is not a car.
The entire focus, or what I've been trying to focus on, has been the fact that CO2 and other greenhouse gases, absorbs IR energy and, because of it's molecular make-up, radiated that absorbed energy in the form of thermal energy that then warms the atmosphere/earth.
Nope. You cannot warm the warmer surface using a colder gas. You are AGAIN ignoring the 2nd law of thermodynamics. Light is not re-radiated by CO2 or anything else.
If you don't believe this process, or something very similar, is happening, what is it that you believe the atmosphere is doing to regulate the high and low temperatures?
The atmosphere is not a thermostat. It doesn't regulate anything.
 
You: Nothing manages temperatures. The atmosphere is not a thermostat.

Me: which makes life on Earth possible.

You: The presence of oxygen, hydrogen, nitrogen, carbon dioxide, and liquid water make life possible.


Great example of word games and time wasting.
Why you insist on playing them is beyond me. You are describing yourself again.
You know what I meant when I said "managing", because you literally reference it one post later, but still you troll....
The atmosphere does not manage anything. It is not sentient.
You also admit that the gases in the atmosphere make life possible, (by regulating temperature swings)
The atmosphere does not regulate anything. It is not a thermostat.
but yet won't acknowledge that changes in the composition of the atmosphere could impact that regulating.
There is no regulating. The atmosphere is not a thermostat.
 
There is no 'topic'. Just your incessant preaching.

Blatant lie.

The Earth is not a car.

Nope. You cannot warm the warmer surface using a colder gas. You are AGAIN ignoring the 2nd law of thermodynamics. Light is not re-radiated by CO2 or anything else.

The atmosphere is not a thermostat. It doesn't regulate anything.

How does the atmosphere currently keep the Earth's temperature from having much larger swings from hot to cold?
 
Science isn't a news outlet, social media, or religion.
You religious belief in the Church of Global Warming is not science.

giphy.gif


:laugh::laugh::laugh:
 
Why you insist on playing them is beyond me. You are describing yourself again.

The atmosphere does not manage anything. It is not sentient.

The atmosphere does not regulate anything. It is not a thermostat.

There is no regulating. The atmosphere is not a thermostat.

Right, so if the atmosphere, that doesn't regulate anything, ceased to exist, the temperatures on Earth would remain unchanged?

giphy.gif
 
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I never said greenhouse gases create energy.
It's called logic. You say all the things that conclude the creation of energy out of nothing. It doesn't matter that you never state your conclusions. Others are free to use formal logic and you don't get to deny it.

I'll run through it again for you:

You claim, nay insist on, an increase in temperature. You never say that you are claiming an increase in thermal energy but you don't have to. An increase in temperature can only happen with an increase in thermal energy. Thermal energy is what gives matter temperature. Now you can bitch and whine and moan and cry like a fucking baby that you never claimed an increase in thermal energy, but you did. You claimed an increase in temperature and that is sufficient to have claimed an increase in the quantity of thermal energy. You gave yourself no wiggle room. It matters not that you are scientifically illiterate and had no idea that that is what you were saying. You should have learned some science before you submissively allowed yourself to be bent over furniture. You claimed an increase in the quantity of thermal energy via your insistence of a temperature increase.

Once again, it doesn't matter what you never said.

You claim that your mystical, magical greenhouse substance causes this increase in thermal energy. Yes, this is your claim and you stick to it. Well, there you have it ... your mystical, magical greenhouse substance somehow causes the creation of additional thermal energy. You insist it.

Once again, it doesn't matter what you never said.

Perhaps if you weren't such a scientifically illiterate moron, you wouldn't be insisting an nearly as many physics violations as you do. As it stands, your religion has you spouting off endless chains of absurd physics violations, and prohibits you from learning anything that I teach you. That makes you stupid, and yes, you therefore make it all about you and your inane devotion to that which is demonstrably FALSE.

Then we get into your laughable inability to respond to any commentary, forcing you to EVADE the myriad of questions you cannot answer. Of course it's all about you; you make it be that way when you refuse to discuss the topic by EVADING all question posed to you. Start answering my questions and I'll be able to return the topic to Global Warming from your scientific illiteracy and your inability to learn. As it stands, you have shifted the topic to your EVASION and your total dishonesty. Your religion is stupid and so are you, but I guess you like it that way.

In fact, a lack of creating energy was the entire focus of the , what, 7 days and 8 pages of me trying to establish that the inside of a car gets hotter DESPITE no additional energy from the sun.
Let's unpack this. You spent 7 days and 8 pages denying convection. The denial and dishonesty was on your end. You refuse to listen and to learn. You take great pride in being stupid. You ventured into irrelevant scenarios just to EVADE my questions that would have otherwise gotten to the root of your error. So, no, you did nothing to cancel any of the thermodynamics problems that kill your religion dead.

The entire focus, or what I've been trying to focus on, has been the fact that CO2 and other greenhouse gases, absorbs IR energy and, because of it's molecular make-up, radiated that absorbed energy in the form of thermal energy that then warms the atmosphere/earth.
This convoluted sentence reads that you have been trying to make the argument that CO2 redistributes existing thermal energy in such a way as to create more of it. Once again, it doesn't matter that you didn't use those exact words, it is nonetheless what you said.

By the way, all matter radiates electromagnetic radiation, e.g. (IR), never thermal energy. You are trying to claim that CO2 radiates thermal energy, because you don't know any better. Perhaps you were confused that RADIANCE is sometimes referred to "thermal radiation" but that is not thermal energy, it is electromagnetic. Pay attention or you will earn yourself a whole lot more mockery if you repeat this error.

what is it that you believe the atmosphere is doing to regulate the high and low temperatures?
You just asked a theological question, denoting your religious perspective. It is not the case that the atmosphere performs any "regulating" or "balancing." Those are holy "forcings" of your religion and while they are fundamental elements of your religious dogma, they do not really exist in nature and are not to be found in science.

You also asked what I believe is happening, as though this is a question of religious beliefs. Science has all of this covered and you should learn it. Your religion runs counter to science; that should be patently obvious by now. It should have been a wake-up call to you when the number of questions that you could not answer without violating physics entered double digits.

Are there any dead people for whom you'd like to pretend to speak about now?

What would happen to the temperature of a cloud of oxygen and/or nitrogen as it comes within close proximity to the sun? The answer to this question leads to all the rest of the answers, so answer it before you ask any more questions.
 

In an effort to move past 'incorrect' wording/phrasing, I've copied an explanation from another source. You can complain to them if you'd like but, since nobody seems to want to truly address how the atmosphere regulates temperatures on Earth, here's an explanation. Now, it stands to reason that there is some characteristic of the atmosphere that keeps some of the energy within the atmosphere so we don't freeze to death at night and bake during the day. That characteristic is the existence of gases.


So, without deflecting, changing the topic or knit picking terms you don't like, does anyone disagree with the bolded area below and, if you do, how would YOU explain how the atmosphere prevents the drastic high and low temperatures on the moon?



The Earth and the Moon are basically the same distance from the Sun, yet temperatures on the Moon average an unlivable negative 18 degrees Celsius. And even deadlier, they range from negative 170 Celsius during lunar night to 100 Celsius at lunar noon, regularly exceeding both the coldest and hottest temperatures ever recorded on Earth. And while the days and nights on the Moon are about 14 times longer than those on Earth, our planet's relatively fast rotation isn't what spares us from those loony temperatures.

What protects us is our atmosphere. By day, it serves as a shield blocking out the most harmful and energetic of the Sun's rays and about one third of the less intense but visible light. At the same time, it traps the infrared radiation, AKA heat, radiating out from Earth's sun-warmed surface, keeping us from freezing solid at night.

In order for our atmosphere to absorb any kind of radiation, it needs to have some electrically charged particles for passing electromagnetic waves to push around. And most of our atmosphere is made up of gas molecules that don't have an electric charge. They all have a balanced number of positive protons and negative electrons. But some molecules hold most of their negatively charged electrons closer to one side, lending them a lopsidedness that can jiggle back and forth to absorb the energy of incoming infrared rays. For example, water, ozone, and nitrous oxide are all electrically lopsided, so they all absorb infrared radiation.

Then there are gases like carbon dioxide and methane. On paper, neither molecule looks lopsided, so doesn't seem like they should be able to absorb any radiating heat. But in reality, gas molecules aren't motionless. They crash into each other billions of times per second, knocking each other in different directions and also into different modes of rotation and vibration. And it turns out that both carbon dioxide and methane spend most of their time shaking it in electrically lopsided ways, allowing them to absorb infrared rays and help insulate the Earth.


Even though many different kinds of molecules can absorb infrared radiation, the vast majority of our atmosphere can't because it's made of nitrogen and oxygen, which don't get lopsided even when they are vibrating. They're too symmetric. Nevertheless, the lopsided 1% are such good infrared absorbers that they manage to intercept about 90% of Earth's outgoing heat. Each captured ray gets pinged around the atmosphere, and most end up returning to the surface at least once before escaping to space.

We don't need to visit the moon during frigid lunar night to know just how important the game of radiation pinball is for Earth. Ice records from our own coldest climate show that small, natural variations in atmospheric carbon dioxide produce relatively big changes in temperature. They also show that compared to the last 800,000 years, the game today is much, much harder.
 
In an effort to move past 'incorrect' wording/phrasing, I've copied an explanation from another source.
Nope, that doesn't work. Everything has to be your words. When you inevitably claim "I never said ..." I will say "Yes, you posted X." You can cut-n-paste but if you post it, you are making those words your words.

This is why your only option is to learn and understand the science you pretend to master. Science is what kills your religion dead, regardless of whether you understand how.

... since nobody seems to want to truly address how the atmosphere regulates temperatures on Earth,
The atmosphere doesn't "regulate" anything. I'm going to skip over your explanation of that which does not happen.

... does anyone disagree with the bolded area below and, if you do, how would YOU explain how the atmosphere prevents the drastic high and low temperatures on the moon?
Into the Night has already answered this twice. I have also answered this several times in a different way. In what way do you disagree with either of us.

In order for our atmosphere to absorb any kind of radiation, it needs to have some electrically charged particles for passing electromagnetic waves to push around.
This is absurd. You should have called boooolsch't instead of regurgitating this.

Even though many different kinds of molecules can absorb infrared radiation, the vast majority of our atmosphere can't because it's made of nitrogen and oxygen, which don't get lopsided even when they are vibrating. They're too symmetric.
So answer the question: "What would happen to the temperature of an oxygen and/or nitrogen cloud as it comes into close proximity to the sun?"
 
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