Double Mormon Ticket...

[christiefan915]

You keep referring to "bigotry"...can you flesh that out a bit?

I remember a FL pastor claiming that religious southern conservatives (Baptists and other fundamentalists) would never vote for a Mormon because they don't believe Mormons are Christian. So I don't see bigotry here, I see a southerner commenting on how his fellow citizens look at the issue.

 

[Damocles]

So saying that the Mormon Church considers anyone who has been baptized a Mormon as a Mormon is akin to saying green people "don't get married and live in sin?" That's a really weird analogy, Damo.

Again, I simply asked for one link... Just one official link from the LDS church that says that once you are baptized you can never convert.

For starters, I don' think it is necessarily a bad thing for the Mormon church to take that position and the concept itself doesn't have a negative connotation as the "live in sin but" you have there.

For starters, the bigotry is apparent against the whole religion, not just in this one ignorant statement that tries to paint a Catholic as a Mormon.

You want a simpler and direct path to an analogy? Let's say I said this about Obama, because Islam doesn't "allow" you to convert to another religion and Obama was listed a Muslim when he was a kid in Indonesia.... Wait, we already know that many on the Left would call that bigotry....

 

[Onceler]

Again, I simply asked for one link... Just one official link from the LDS church that says that once you are baptized you can never convert.


For starters, the bigotry is apparent against the whole religion, not just in this one ignorant statement that tries to paint a Catholic as a Mormon.

You want a simpler and direct path to an analogy? Let's say I said this about Obama, because Islam doesn't "allow" you to convert to another religion and Obama was listed a Muslim when he was a kid in Indonesia.... Wait, we already know that many on the Left would call that bigotry....

I wouldn't consider that bigotry. Lots of people say that Obama is a Muslim. While many who say that he is do tend to say so for bigoted reasons, merely saying he is Muslim isn't "bigoted."

 

[Bonestorm]

Again, I simply asked for one link... Just one official link from the LDS church that says that once you are baptized you can never convert.


For starters, the bigotry is apparent against the whole religion, not just in this one ignorant statement that tries to paint a Catholic as a Mormon.

You want a simpler and direct path to an analogy? Let's say I said this about Obama, because Islam doesn't "allow" you to convert to another religion and Obama was listed a Muslim when he was a kid in Indonesia.... Wait, we already know that many on the Left would call that bigotry....

Yes, I probably would, but that would be bigotry towards Obama, not towards the Muslim faith. You aren't claiming bigotry towards Rubio, but bigotry towards Mormonism.

You seem to think the Mormon church was somehow maligned by Jarod here in his saying that it considers anyone baptized a Mormon to be a Mormon regardless of whether they leave the church.



Edit: I have no desire to find out whether the Mormon church considers all who are baptized into the church as forever members. Frankly, I don't care. I don't think it is bigoted per se to state that the church holds that view.

 

[Damocles]

So your (both Onceler and Turd) position is that Jarod is a bigot, just towards Rubio and not to Mormons generally.... Why didn't you just say so rather than try to defend him using stupid semantic arguments?

I see it both... The assumption is that because he is considered a "Mormon" forever, he'll doom everything. Clearly just being "considered" Mormon is enough reason not to vote for somebody in the eyes of Jarod... even when he cannot prove even that particular assertion.

 

[Bonestorm]

So your (both Onceler and Turd) position is that Jarod is a bigot, just towards Rubio and not to Mormons generally.... Why didn't you just say so rather than try to defend him using stupid semantic arguments.

No, I don't think it's a bigoted statement to say (1) Rubio was baptized into the Mormon church and (2) that the Mormon church considers anyone baptized into the Mormon church as forever Mormon. Number 1 is a factual statement. Number 2 could be wrong, I don't know. Obama, by contrast, was never a Muslim.

I see it both... The assumption is that because he is considered a "Mormon" forever, he'll doom everything. Clearly just being "considered" Mormon is enough reason not to vote for somebody in the eyes of Jarod... even when he cannot prove even that particular assertion.

I don't think it's bigoted at all to say that the Mormon church considers anyone baptized into the Mormon church as forever Mormon. Also, too, Jarod didn't say that being considered a Mormon is reason enough not to vote for someone, but that having Rubio on the ticket would "harm the ticket" because he was baptized a Mormon. There are actually polls that support that idea.

 

[Phantasmal]

I'm reading my third book on Mormons and this is exactly right. The second book was about Mark Hofmann who forged a bunch of Mormon documents and set off bombs to cover his tracks. Hofmann's father was so shattered by the crimes that he told Mark he wished the death penalty by shooting on him, so there would be blood atonement and then the family could be reunited in eternity.

Exactly, I saw a docunmentary on him. It was quite interesting. I will try to think of the name of it, and maybe, you can watch it on Netflix.

They are a fascinating group of people.

 

[Damocles]

No, I don't think it's a bigoted statement to say (1) Rubio was baptized into the Mormon church and (2) that the Mormon church considers anyone baptized into the Mormon church as forever Mormon. Number 1 is a factual statement. Number 2 could be wrong, I don't know. Obama, by contrast, was never a Muslim.




I don't think it's bigoted at all to say that the Mormon church considers anyone baptized into the Mormon church as forever Mormon. Also, too, Jarod didn't say that being considered a Mormon is reason enough not to vote for someone, but that having Rubio on the ticket would "harm the ticket" because he was baptized a Mormon. There are actually polls that support that idea.

Seriously, I think you are reaching to explain away bigotry and that original posts trying to play a semantic game was an attempt to defend bigotry through distraction.

I think it is bigotry to spread something you 1. Do not know and cannot prove about a religion you are obviously ignorant of. and 2. To assume that because of the misinformation that Rubio guy I hate would "doom" anybody...

Both are bigoted (statements made in ignorance perpetuated because it is what the person wants to believe is bigotry), and both are defenses. One can prove that Obama was "considered" a Muslim, that doesn't mean spreading ignorance about him isn't bigotry. The same can be said of Rubio.

 

[Jarod]

Ok... I am not going to play your ignorant games. I did not call out either for their anecdotal evidence. I did point out that both used it. I also pointed out that you seemed to ignore the non-stop bullshit from Jarod, yet singled Damo out. I also noted your stupidity for proclaiming this conversation on the Mormon faith was 'hyper Romney defense'.

And you ignore the bullshit from Damo, yet single me out.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

And you ignore the bullshit from Damo, yet single me out.

You apparently are incapable of reading dipshit.

 

[Phantasmal]

You made the comment based on when a kid was baptized and my pointed request to link to any official document that says that nobody can convert and that they are "always Mormons"... I simply point out to you the difference between an 8 year old being baptized and what a Sealing is.

I also pointed out that because my brother was not LDS they could not be sealed, and then pointed out that most Mormons are not Sealed and why...

Then Onceler decided to throw in a stupid semantic argument which Jarod desperately tried to hang onto.

This religious bigotry should not be defended by stupidity or sarcasm, it isn't okay.

There is zero reason for bigotry when there is available knowledge to be had, and people who pride themselves on being open minded shouldn't spout this stupidity for political profit. Bigots need to be told they are bigots so they can correct if they want or will wade into that sludge with full knowledge.

I did not, I was just interjecting my knowledge of LDS practices. I did not comment on the Rubio issue, except that Rubio is now considered by the Catholic church to be Catholic. If he was on the Mormon roll, unless he went through the processing of asking to be removed from their roll, he is still considered a Mormon, an apostate Mormon, but never formally excommunicated, unless joining another church automatically ex- communicates you. I will have to look into this.

Most churches discourage conversion, because most churches believe they are the one true faith. This is the way they discourage joining other faiths. Their way is the only way to salvation.

 

[Jarod]

Which proves nothing about your original assertion. Your ignorance is impressive if you truly do know "many" Mormons and your willingness to spread nonsense about them underlines your bigotry.

I dont see how you get to bigotry here, you sure are quick to call me a bigot. Id need a lot more evidence before I started throwing that name around.

 

[Jarod]

One definition of bigotry is purposefully spreading ignorance even when faced with the truth. Yeah, this thread is bigotry.

That is not bigotry, its also not what Ive done.

The mormons I know have told me that you cant leave the church, once in, they consider you in, regardless of what you believe about yourself or what other churches you join. Just because there is no cite that says this is the Mormon doctrine does not make it untrue.

 

[Jarod]

So saying that the Mormon Church considers anyone who has been baptized a Mormon as a Mormon is akin to saying green people "don't get married and live in sin?" That's a really weird analogy, Damo.

For starters, I don' think it is necessarily a bad thing for the Mormon church to take that position and the concept itself doesn't have a negative connotation as the "live in sin but" you have there.

THIS!

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

I dont see how you get to bigotry here, you sure are quick to call me a bigot. Id need a lot more evidence before I started throwing that name around.

your OP stated in part:

According to the Mormon church once baptised you cannot leave the church...

You are either:

1) A Bigot who is knowingly falsely characterizing a religion

or

2) an Idiot who spouts off on topics that he has no knowledge of.

So tell Jarod... which is it? Are you a bigot or an idiot?

 

[Jarod]

Again, I simply asked for one link... Just one official link from the LDS church that says that once you are baptized you can never convert.


For starters, the bigotry is apparent against the whole religion, not just in this one ignorant statement that tries to paint a Catholic as a Mormon.

You want a simpler and direct path to an analogy? Let's say I said this about Obama, because Islam doesn't "allow" you to convert to another religion and Obama was listed a Muslim when he was a kid in Indonesia.... Wait, we already know that many on the Left would call that bigotry....

I would not call that bigorty, I would call that a flawed argument, but not bigotry.
You did not simply ask for a link, you started throwing around the claim of bigotry!

 

[Jarod]

So your (both Onceler and Turd) position is that Jarod is a bigot, just towards Rubio and not to Mormons generally.... Why didn't you just say so rather than try to defend him using stupid semantic arguments?

I see it both... The assumption is that because he is considered a "Mormon" forever, he'll doom everything. Clearly just being "considered" Mormon is enough reason not to vote for somebody in the eyes of Jarod... even when he cannot prove even that particular assertion.

No, I said that is the way it is, I did not say that is the way it should be! Ugh.

 

[Jarod]

No, I don't think it's a bigoted statement to say (1) Rubio was baptized into the Mormon church and (2) that the Mormon church considers anyone baptized into the Mormon church as forever Mormon. Number 1 is a factual statement. Number 2 could be wrong, I don't know. Obama, by contrast, was never a Muslim.




I don't think it's bigoted at all to say that the Mormon church considers anyone baptized into the Mormon church as forever Mormon. Also, too, Jarod didn't say that being considered a Mormon is reason enough not to vote for someone, but that having Rubio on the ticket would "harm the ticket" because he was baptized a Mormon. There are actually polls that support that idea.

Yup!

 

[Bonestorm]

Seriously, I think you are reaching to explain away bigotry and that original posts trying to play a semantic game was an attempt to defend bigotry through distraction.

I think your Romney defense reaction has a hair-trigger.

I think it is bigotry to spread something you 1. Do not know and cannot prove about a religion you are obviously ignorant of. and 2. To assume that because of the misinformation that Rubio guy I hate would "doom" anybody...

(1) I don't see what is hateful about saying that the Mormon church considers anyone who was baptized as a Mormon as a Mormon. Can you explain that for me?

(2) The only person talking about "doom" is you. Jarod said it would "harm" the ticket and there is poll data to support the idea that some people would not vote for a Mormon for president.

Both are bigoted (statements made in ignorance perpetuated because it is what the person wants to believe is bigotry), and both are defenses. One can prove that Obama was "considered" a Muslim, that doesn't mean spreading ignorance about him isn't bigotry. The same can be said of Rubio.

But Rubio wasn't "considered" a Mormon. He was a Mormon, baptized into the faith. I agree that he isn't Mormon now, regardless of what the Mormon church as to say about it, but I don't think it's necessarily bigoted to say that he was baptized Mormon and that the Mormon church considers all so baptized to be Mormon.

 

[Jarod]

your OP stated in part:



You are either:

1) A Bigot who is knowingly falsely characterizing a religion

or

2) an Idiot who spouts off on topics that he has no knowledge of.

So tell Jarod... which is it? Are you a bigot or an idiot?

1) You still dont know what a bigot is, saying something false about a group is not bigotry.
2) I might be wrong about Mormons, but being misinformed does not make one an idiot.
3) I do not belive I am wrong and have not been proven wrong.