A good example of why people are screaming for HC reform.

Mott the Hoople said:
Easily. They provide a service for which they earn a good salary that is funded by the public. The system in France, which by the way is the best in the world in terms of results, uses private insurance companies to manage health care finance but they are legaly operated as non-profits. In fact in all modern industrialized nations except the US all health insurance companies are operated as non-profits. It's a big factor in controling costs.
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Let me guess, you think the government should determine what the 'good salary' is?
 
Dungheap said:
Yeah, those idiots taking the advice of their doctors when it comes to things like the condition of their heart. Morons. Mott should have taken an aspirin and told the doctor to fuck off.
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An intelligent person can get the answer to the costs prior to the procedure. You and many of the other left wing morons can't ever seem to grasp the concept of personal responsibility. You instead trot out the bullshit like yours above and then pretend it is the doctors fault.
 
The truth of the matter is that doctors that are like car mechanics: they have knowledge of things that you don't and you rely on them to tell you what you need. There are unscrupulous mechanics and there are unscrupulous doctors. The difficultly is knowing whether you're dealing with an unscrupulous one, particularly if it isn't your PCP, and you usually don't run the risk of death by not getting some recommended work performed on your car.
 
Dungheap said:
The truth of the matter is that doctors that are like car mechanics: they have knowledge of things that you don't and you rely on them to tell you what you need. There are unscrupulous mechanics and there are unscrupulous doctors. The difficultly is knowing whether you're dealing with an unscrupulous one, particularly if it isn't your PCP, and you usually don't run the risk of death by not getting some recommended work performed on your car.
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The truth of the matter is, you continue to try and place the blame on the doctor rather than on the dumbass patient. The truth of the matter is that their are a lot of people who are just too fucking retarded to get the price up front. This doesn't seem to have been a life threatening 'do it now, you could be dead in ten minutes' thing where Mutt just simply didn't have the time to get the answer. He chose to be a sheep and be led along.
 
Superfreak said:
An intelligent person can get the answer to the costs prior to the procedure. You and many of the other left wing morons can't ever seem to grasp the concept of personal responsibility. You instead trot out the bullshit like yours above and then pretend it is the doctors fault.
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I don't see what this has to do with personal responsibility. You go to see a doctor to check on your health for a reason. I don't see how it is responsible to ignore ta doctor's recommendation on the grounds of price.

And getting an answer to the costs prior to the procedure isn't a matter of intelligence. Cost isn't fixed in most cases. If you have insurance, the cost is a hell of a lot different than if you do. And among different insurers the cost is different. And depending on your insurer and type of coverage, what you end up having to pay out of pocket is variable. So it's not a matter of being intelligent, really. Anyone can find out the cost before the procedure it they put the time it, but in most instances it's going to take some time. And really, at the end of the day, most people are going to follow the recommendation of their doctors because that's what doctors are for.
 
Superfreak said:
The truth of the matter is, you continue to try and place the blame on the doctor rather than on the dumbass patient. The truth of the matter is that their are a lot of people who are just too fucking retarded to get the price up front. This doesn't seem to have been a life threatening 'do it now, you could be dead in ten minutes' thing where Mutt just simply didn't have the time to get the answer. He chose to be a sheep and be led along.
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Yes, patient's generally are dumbasses when it comes to healthcare matters. That's why we have doctors! They're the experts! That's why we rely on them. And if doctors are recommending unnecessary medical services they should be blamed for that.
 
Dungheap said:
Yes, patient's generally are dumbasses when it comes to healthcare matters. That's why we have doctors! They're the experts! That's why we rely on them. And if doctors are recommending unnecessary medical services they should be blamed for that.
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They are forced to practice defensive medicine to protect themselves from the lazy fucks who make a living suing respectable professionals.
 
Stargazer said:
They are forced to practice defensive medicine to protect themselves from the lazy fucks who make a living suing respectable professionals.
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Sure...that doctor that cut off the patient's wrong leg was real "responsible".

I'll bet he was a "responsible gun owner" too!
 
Howey. said:
Sure...that doctor that cut off the patient's wrong leg was real "responsible".

I'll bet he was a "responsible gun owner" too!
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Yeah, those are like the needle in the haystack. Most cases are from bogus, lazy fucks looking for a free ride for life on the back of someone else. The bottom of the gene pool.
 
Stargazer said:
They are forced to practice defensive medicine to protect themselves from the lazy fucks who make a living suing respectable professionals.
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They aren't forced to do squat. They're professionals for Christ's sake and earn a damn good living on the basis of their professional judgment. If they think they're professional judgment is inadequate and indefensible, they ought to look for a new line of work.
 
Dungheap said:
I don't see what this has to do with personal responsibility. You go to see a doctor to check on your health for a reason. I don't see how it is responsible to ignore ta doctor's recommendation on the grounds of price.
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Dear moron... try to pay attention to what this thread is about. Mutt is bitching and moaning that he didn't know the costs prior to all the tests. The personal responsibility was HIS to make sure that he got that if it was that important to him. It was up to Mutt to say 'hey, I am worried about the costs, I want to know what they are prior to doing them'.

That is all he had to say. If they said no, then Mutt would probably have a good indication he was dealing with one of those unscrupulous doctors you mentioned. But Mutt didn't. Instead, he asked and then when not answered, he went along with it anyway and now wants to bitch about it.

And getting an answer to the costs prior to the procedure isn't a matter of intelligence.
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It is when you are concerned with it as Mutt has said he was. It is if you are going to after the fact bitch about not getting it before the procedure.

Cost isn't fixed in most cases. If you have insurance, the cost is a hell of a lot different than if you do.
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LMAO... you have no idea how hospitals/doctors offices work do you? You think they just randomly assign the costs to procedures/tests? No... they already know what they are.

And among different insurers the cost is different. And depending on your insurer and type of coverage, what you end up having to pay out of pocket is variable. So it's not a matter of being intelligent, really. Anyone can find out the cost before the procedure it they put the time it, but in most instances it's going to take some time. And really, at the end of the day, most people are going to follow the recommendation of their doctors because that's what doctors are for.
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Yes, insurance plans are different. Thanks captain obvious. But if they tell Mutt the total costs, he will likely know what his plan covers and what his deductible is. IF he doesn't, that is yet again on him.

As I said, some people are really more like sheep. You and those that simply follow the recommendation of their doctors without question are a big part of the problem.
 
Stargazer said:
Yeah, those are like the needle in the haystack. Most cases are from bogus, lazy fucks looking for a free ride for life on the back of someone else. The bottom of the gene pool.
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There is zero chance you know about most cases of anything!
Fucking NRAZI moron
 
Dungheap said:
They aren't forced to do squat. They're professionals for Christ's sake and earn a damn good living on the basis of their professional judgment. If they think they're professional judgment is inadequate and indefensible, they ought to look for a new line of work.
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If they want to avoid being sued by a lazy fuck they must cover their ass.

Sounds pretty smart to me.
 
Superfreak said:
Dear moron... try to pay attention to what this thread is about. Mutt is bitching and moaning that he didn't know the costs prior to all the tests. The personal responsibility was HIS to make sure that he got that if it was that important to him. It was up to Mutt to say 'hey, I am worried about the costs, I want to know what they are prior to doing them'.

That is all he had to say. If they said no, then Mutt would probably have a good indication he was dealing with one of those unscrupulous doctors you mentioned. But Mutt didn't. Instead, he asked and then when not answered, he went along with it anyway and now wants to bitch about it.



It is when you are concerned with it as Mutt has said he was. It is if you are going to after the fact bitch about not getting it before the procedure.



LMAO... you have no idea how hospitals/doctors offices work do you? You think they just randomly assign the costs to procedures/tests? No... they already know what they are.



Yes, insurance plans are different. Thanks captain obvious. But if they tell Mutt the total costs, he will likely know what his plan covers and what his deductible is. IF he doesn't, that is yet again on him.

As I said, some people are really more like sheep. You and those that simply follow the recommendation of their doctors without question are a big part of the problem.
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Yer such a fucking idiot sometimes. Sure he wanted to know what it cost and he asked repeatedly. Meanwhile, in his backless gown, having been smacked with the velvet hammer of "heart trouble", the healthcare industrial complex continued the parade to the stress test treadmill, unabated.

I remember a couple years ago, I went in for a routine checkup. Now I have some serious heart conditions. When the Doc said I think we need to get you to the hospital; would you like me to call an ambulance? I didn't even blink (or think), I just replied, no, my wife will take me.

After a full day of tests (including the dreaded stress test), I was released.
The Bill? $11,400. The diagnoses? Cardio-myopathy, same as was already written on my chart.
I didn't have insurance at the time.
I had pre-negotiated my checkup for $100 and paid cash.
All my fiscal responsibility and wariness went out the window when the Doc said, "we can't handle this here, we need to get you to the E.R.

In reality, nothing whatsoever was accomplished at the hospital, aside form me accruing a very large, pointless bill.
 
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