Crowds flock to reopened Jacksonville beaches as Florida hits record coronavirus case

[Bill]

Do you think MORE REVENUE would mean that money would be used for the deficit?
Of course not -Congress spend any money it can get it grubby hands on and more

wow, that is a real buzz kill...

The gubment aka special interests would always find some "better interest" for those trillions that our great grandchildren will be faced w/ + interest...

I recall back in the early80's when I moved back to Calif & a work associate had a bumper sticker that said [vote the bastards out]..... I asked him who were the bastards & he said they were, I asked who they were, he said all of them are...

Only thing I can remember about him, other than he drove & drank all day.. He had this rubbery plastic decal from the flea market that was a duplicate of a pepsi can.. He just slapped that on & never got pulled over once.........

 

[dukkha]

wow, that is a real buzz kill...

The gubment aka special interests would always find some "better interest" for those trillions that our great grandchildren will be faced w/ + interest...

I recall back in the early80's when I moved back to Calif & a work associate had a bumper sticker that said [vote the bastards out]..... I asked him who were the bastards & he said they were, I asked who they were, he said all of them are...

Only thing I can remember about him, other than he drove & drank all day.. He had this rubbery plastic decal from the flea market that was a duplicate of a pepsi can.. He just slapped that on & never got pulled over once.........

I think it's a given we vote lessor of 2 evils. I found Trump a refreshing change -not a politician and willing to blow up the stagnant swamp. but in many ways he's become the status quo.

Don't get me wrong.
I still completely support his agenda, but he's been manipulated by McConnell and before that Paul Ryan.

The problem is our separation of powers makes any real "change" impossible -although Trump has made some progress- and in other cases been sucked into the swamp..

"Vote the bastards out" -all of them -every time- is good advice

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello Dutch Uncle,

Pro-science people know to qualify their theories. The odds are strong that numbers of infected will increase.

The fact remains our nation was ill-prepared for this. We're spent all of our reserves and now Trump and Congress is just printing money. The budget deficit for 2020 is about $4T. That's on top of the $23T our nation is already in the hole. The GDP for 2018 was $21T, so our nation is in more debt than it generates, even in a productive "Trump year".

I have no understanding on why so many people think that having so much debt is okay. Maybe it is better if 10 million Americans die of disease so that the rest of the population can understand the consequences of their actions.

We didn't have any reserves. Government normally spends borrowed money because the budget has not been balanced since President Clinton. If we had any 'reserves' it was merely cash which had not been applied to the debt. Clinton balanced the budget, created a surplus and began paying down the debt. GWB ignored good advice, squandered the surplus and irresponsibly handed out free checks during a good economy. Then there was a recession and the chance to pay down the debt was lost until recently when we could have taxed the rich enough to do it again, but that chance was squandered by DT, who decided instead to irresponsibly give the super-rich a big tax cut.

Now that we need to rely on our credit once again, we have less of it, and will be left with more debt than if we had responsibly taxed the rich to pay down the debt.

The only time you can try to pay down the debt is during a good economy.

It simply cannot be done during a recession.

DT wasted a good opportunity and now we will have to take on massive debt.

But that's his MO. He has been spending borrowed money and racking up debt his whole life.

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello dukkha,

Do you think MORE REVENUE would mean that money would be used for the deficit?
Of course not -Congress spend any money it can get it grubby hands on and more

The debt situation is not hopeless.

Daunting, yes. Hopeless, no.

We have to get the corruption out of government and demand that our government balance the budget and begin paying down the debt after the economy returns.

The first thing we have to do is get the corruption out of government.

Difficult, yes, but not impossible. Big problems take time. Forget instant gratification. This will take time. There is no easy fix. There is a mature plan of action. You can make this a priority and be part of the solution. We need as many smart people as possible to get on board to make this happen. Do you have what it takes?

Here is how we begin:

 

[Dutch Uncle]

It's the old Holmes quote, the right to punch ends at my nose. The eminent domain analogy leaves out the entire reason for what's happening with the pandemic is based on people dying.
That's a pretty damn good justification. Seldom do governments confiscate a home to stop disease spread, but would be fully justified in say, shutting down a business that caused disease.
Further, the OP is about beaches, and a public beach is not an industry, per se, although I concede people make businesses off that public good. (they should probably have to reimburse us all for that freebee)
Another point is that these government intrusions on our liberty interests are not intended to be permanent. And finally, they seem to be working.

Frankly I am to a degree arguing against my beliefs as I think a global pandemic is a subject that the federal government should naturally have key responsibility for making more
uniform decisions. But since it is happenstance that it is to the Orange criminal that this vast power presently befalls, I am more than happy to overlook principle this once and let governors decide ad hoc.

Sorry, but I don't want to give the Federal or my state government to declare martial law every time it's Flu season. That, in essence, is what you are offering up as a precedent for the future.

The fact remains that the "greater good" is to let 3% die and 97% to be happy and prosperous rather than 1% dead and 99% starving and poor under constant martial law.

Trump is a symptom of the problem, not the actual problem.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

...
Taxes are confiscatory, but excess taxation is a grab for wealth.
Do you think MORE REVENUE would mean that money would be used for the deficit?
Of course not -Congress spend any money it can get it grubby hands on and more

Right now there is no "excess taxation" while Trump and Congress spend money the nation doesn't have.

The only way to get this under control is to write a balanced budget or set ratio of GDP/Federal Debt into law. I think American people who have children should take a hard look at the legacy the nation is leaving them.

 

[Bill]

I think it's a given we vote lessor of 2 evils. I found Trump a refreshing change -not a politician and willing to blow up the stagnant swamp. but in many ways he's become the status quo.

Don't get me wrong.
I still completely support his agenda, but he's been manipulated by McConnell and before that Paul Ryan.

The problem is our separation of powers makes any real "change" impossible -although Trump has made some progress- and in other cases been sucked into the swamp..

"Vote the bastards out" -all of them -every time- is good advice

Yep, it would seem pretty anti-Team.......

Politics is a weeing process, the tool is money... You play ball or the party does not support you aka you outta cash=out of a job..

trump is really the first to avoid that process, along w/ Perot & Anderson perhaps...

Compromise is part of it, no one can avoid it..

They say the LBJ was the best @ it, & that didn't work out to well for him in the long run..

 

[dukkha]

Yep, it would seem pretty anti-Team.......

Politics is a weeing process, the tool is money... You play ball or the party does not support you aka you outta cash=out of a job..

trump is really the first to avoid that process, along w/ Perot & Anderson perhaps...

Compromise is part of it, no one can avoid it..

They say the LBJ was the best @ it, & that didn't work out to well for him in the long run..

LBJ and Nixon were the scum of the earth. They both deserved the boot

 

[dukkha]

Right now there is no "excess taxation" while Trump and Congress spend money the nation doesn't have.

The only way to get this under control is to write a balanced budget or set ratio of GDP/Federal Debt into law. I think American people who have children should take a hard look at the legacy the nation is leaving them.

Hey I was deficit hawk long ago. The Tea Party was founded on it. None of it matters.
Congress is completely unhinged from the problem of chronic deficit spending -and unanswerable to the voters because they all do it

 

[dukkha]

Hello dukkha,



The debt situation is not hopeless.

Daunting, yes. Hopeless, no.

We have to get the corruption out of government and demand that our government balance the budget and begin paying down the debt after the economy returns.

The first thing we have to do is get the corruption out of government.

Difficult, yes, but not impossible. Big problems take time. Forget instant gratification. This will take time. There is no easy fix. There is a mature plan of action. You can make this a priority and be part of the solution. We need as many smart people as possible to get on board to make this happen. Do you have what it takes?

Here is how we begin:

sorry but that's a fools game. I appreciate the intent -i really do - but Congress doesn't GAF how much it spends

 

[Concart]

Sorry, but I don't want to give the Federal or my state government to declare martial law every time it's Flu season. That, in essence, is what you are offering up as a precedent for the future.

The fact remains that the "greater good" is to let 3% die and 97% to be happy and prosperous rather than 1% dead and 99% starving and poor under constant martial law.

Trump is a symptom of the problem, not the actual problem.

Yours is a false choice. We can address the fiscal situation, but not until we have the virus under control. You can't open up the economy if the death toll suddenly tripled. It would have the opposite effect. Opening restaurants does no good if they have no customers. Open up too early, and we are back in this, and the next time it will last a lot longer.

 

[dukkha]

Yours is a false choice. We can address the fiscal situation, but not until we have the virus under control. You can't open up the economy if the death toll suddenly tripled. It would have the opposite effect. Opening restaurants does no good if they have no customers. Open up too early, and we are back in this, and the next time it will last a lot longer.

define "under control"
There isn't going to be a vaccine. we're gonna get another round this fall. it's never going to be risk free.

So you open and look to mitigate by social distancing. hygiene , and the new hope is 'far Uv" lamps.
we have to open to incorporate new ideas

 

[Concart]

define "under control"
There isn't going to be a vaccine. we're gonna get another round this fall. it's never going to be risk free.

So you open and look to mitigate by social distancing. hygiene , and the new hope is 'far Uv" lamps.
we have to open to incorporate new ideas

That's all well and good, but you can't ignore human nature. I don't find this to be an enormous burden. I work, we walk the dogs a couple of times. We go for drives. I have my hobbies, and I'm not going to go broke. I think most people are in the same boat I am. My wife and I like to dine out a lot and go to movies. Can you get me back to the theater? Sure, if the place is half empty. Can you get me to a restaurant. It's a stretch, especially with how easily I can have restaurant meals delivered. Tattoos? ZERO chance. Haircut? I can do my own, thanks. Sporting events? Hard no. So unless you make people like me feel safe, our economy isn't coming back. I'll feel much safer when we have massive testing, antibody testing, and contact tracing. But this is linear. When this started, I told my wife to expect to be in this phase until Memorial Day. I think that's about right. You have to address the public health issue or no one is going to go out and spend money.

 

[Stretch]

The usual flu and the Wuflu will be with us for a while. Deal with it, open up. You must be in the Bill Gates cabal.

 

[dukkha]

That's all well and good, but you can't ignore human nature. I don't find this to be an enormous burden. I work, we walk the dogs a couple of times. We go for drives. I have my hobbies, and I'm not going to go broke.

elitist snob talk. I am working as well,but I have compassion for the majority of the workforce out of work.
This is your worst post yet -you are an out of touch socialist -
busy virtue-signaling while telling the rest of the workforce to eat cake.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Hey I was deficit hawk long ago. The Tea Party was founded on it. None of it matters.
Congress is completely unhinged from the problem of chronic deficit spending -and unanswerable to the voters because they all do it

The Tea Party was great until it went national and turned into a perverted POS. Agreed on Congress, completely unhinged from national financial problems.

 

[dukkha]

The usual flu and the Wuflu will be with us for a while. Deal with it, open up. You must be in the Bill Gates cabal.

"Be safe" is a goal. not a metric

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Yours is a false choice. We can address the fiscal situation, but not until we have the virus under control. You can't open up the economy if the death toll suddenly tripled. It would have the opposite effect. Opening restaurants does no good if they have no customers. Open up too early, and we are back in this, and the next time it will last a lot longer.

Disagreed. There isn't even a cure or vaccine available and won't be for 6-8 months. Even if we had it today, it could take 3-6 months for it to become available to the public. Businesses are going under after just a month of this.

Even if everything works out as planned, there could be another novel virus pandemic next year, a mutation of COVID-19 or any other issue deemed "a health hazard" thus allowing the Feds to shut down "selective" areas....and for what? Yes, semi-permanent poverty in order to save lives and give the largest government we have even more power.

 

[Concart]

elitist snob talk. I am working as well,but I have compassion for the majority of the workforce out of work.
This is your worst post yet -you are an out of touch socialist -
busy virtue-signaling while telling the rest of the workforce to eat cake.

Nonsense. You missed the mark completely. First, 'the majority' of the workforce is not out of work. That's garbage. Second, my point is that people aren't going to return as customers to those businesses because there is no need for them to do so. Fortunately for me, I don't care what grade you give me. Maybe rather than grading my paper you could actually respond with something intelligent. How would that be?

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Nonsense. You missed the mark completely. First, 'the majority' of the workforce is not out of work. That's garbage. Second, my point is that people aren't going to return as customers to those businesses because there is no need for them to do so. Fortunately for me, I don't care what grade you give me. Maybe rather than grading my paper you could actually respond with something intelligent. How would that be?

Correct about majority. Only half of US workers won't have a paycheck in May sooooo....not a majority. You win!

https://www.businessinsider.com/lay...alf-american-workers-paycheck-wage-may-2020-4

• Recent job losses due to the coronavirus pandemic could mean that fewer than half of working-age Americans will be earning a wage in May, James Knightley, chief international economist at ING, wrote in a Thursday note.
• Job losses have already contributed to slumps in consumer spending, seen in retail and housing sales reports. Given that consumption makes up roughly 70% of US gross domestic product, the effects on the economy will be severe.
• In an election year, the widespread unemployment will likely mean that the call for politicians to reopen the economy will grow, irrespective of health advice, according to Knightley.
• But reopening too soon lessens the chance that the US will see a swift recovery, he added.