Understanding Socialism

Yurt said:
i meant, i don't care about his claim as it relates to our discussion....this thread has taken many tangents since the OP and i find it disingenuous for you now to care about it....it really shows me that you can't actually debate the issues you and i were discussing, so you have deflect about how we are allegedly off topic and how its minutia and splitting hairs....it is absolutely naive of you to say that just because something is temporary socialist that i'm making a disingenuous argument....time is irrelevant to issue of whether it is socialist policy NOW, you arguing otherwise is outright dishonest

it is absolutely false that anything i've said is minutia or splitting hairs....this is really you just giving up on the debate....pity i was enjoying it
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I stand by what I said. If it's a temporary measure in one business that isn't indicative or meaningful in any way of any long-term "drift" toward Socialism, then what is your point? Sorry, but it IS minutia and hair-splitting. It's your usual m.o.

No loans come without conditions. GM didn't have to take the money. The gov't had some conditions, but they didn't amount to a takeover of GM or the car industry, and GM will continue to funtion as a private enterprise if they survive.
 
Yurt said:
the government owns the means and production of GM, that is factual....it is irrelevent how temporary it is, right now, it is socialist and the policy is socialist....they even forced out the last CEO...yeah, then guess who is calling the shots....the government, how you can claim it is not socialism is bizarre....seems you have this time factor which is absolutely irrelevent to whether it is socialist now

healthcare reform is a socialist policy...the government will own the means and production of its own healthcare insurance....you don't need a complete takeover of every single thing for some one policy or thing to be socialist
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That's not true Yurt. GM is still a publicly owned corporation in which, at present, the Government has controlling interest but the government does not have sole ownership. They are not the only stakeholders.
 
Onceler said:
I stand by what I said. If it's a temporary measure in one business that isn't indicative or meaningful in any way of any long-term "drift" toward Socialism, then what is your point? Sorry, but it IS minutia and hair-splitting. It's your usual m.o.

No loans come without conditions. GM didn't have to take the money. The gov't had some conditions, but they didn't amount to a takeover of GM or the car industry, and GM will continue to funtion as a private enterprise if they survive.
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onceler....you're now turning into a whiner...."its my m.o."....oh my, yurt actually discusses the details but since i can't go that deep i'll just say it is minutia and hair splitting....you're weak

the very fact that our government took an ownership of GM, committed a socialist policy, should bother you....how can any rational person say this is not a drift....of course it is a drift, it happened and you defend it....obama and other libs are on record as saying they want h/c reform to become one payer, totally socialist....many of them view this h/c reform as the first step....while it may never amount to anything more than it is now, it is definitely a "drift" away from non socialist policies, the government will own the means and production of its own insurance company, how you cannot call that a drift is absurd....

again, it doesn't matter if GM voluntarily allowed it, the government took an ownership <-- in GM, they did not have to loan the money AND take an ownership and control the corporation....but keep whining onceler, it appears its all you have left
 
I don't agree with the GM bailout or the Sailors bailout.
But whining socialism is a mental midgets stab at carrying the Rush flag for lack or any clue about a real understanding of economics much less socialist economics. I hope these aholes are scared out the socialist market and stay poor.
 
Onceler said:
Exactly!

You're starting to get it...

:clink:
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No, I am not getting it? How has one got anything to do with the other? With the S&L bailouts and Chrysler bailout, the Feds extended a one-time 'loan' to the corporations, with GM, they became majority shareholders, fired the CEO, and control the fucking company! Two ENTIRELY different things!

Got it?
 
Yurt said:
onceler....you're now turning into a whiner...."its my m.o."....oh my, yurt actually discusses the details but since i can't go that deep i'll just say it is minutia and hair splitting....you're weak

the very fact that our government took an ownership of GM, committed a socialist policy, should bother you....how can any rational person say this is not a drift....of course it is a drift, it happened and you defend it....obama and other libs are on record as saying they want h/c reform to become one payer, totally socialist....many of them view this h/c reform as the first step....while it may never amount to anything more than it is now, it is definitely a "drift" away from non socialist policies, the government will own the means and production of its own insurance company, how you cannot call that a drift is absurd....

again, it doesn't matter if GM voluntarily allowed it, the government took an ownership <-- in GM, they did not have to loan the money AND take an ownership and control the corporation....but keep whining onceler, it appears its all you have left
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Pretty hypocritical of you to say I'm whining. The post I was responding to was a total whinefest about my "debate skills." And it is your m.o. Just a fact.

The fact that the gov't offered one of our last major manufacturing bases a life preserver doesn't bother me in the slightest. You throw around terms like "takeover" and "socialism" with ignorant abandon; they are complete mischaracterizations of what took place.

You just don't want to give up on your "point." You've been proven wrong, and can't admit it (like usual).

:pke:
 
Dixie said:
No, I am not getting it? How has one got anything to do with the other? With the S&L bailouts and Chrysler bailout, the Feds extended a one-time 'loan' to the corporations, with GM, they became majority shareholders, fired the CEO, and control the fucking company! Two ENTIRELY different things!

Got it?
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dixie you skinhead retard, you think the gov wants to hold that stock for 50 yrs or 50 months
I hope the republicans are chock full of assclowns like you. Then an Imbicile like Obama can still crush you weaklings AGAIN!!!:eek:
 
Topspin said:
I don't agree with the GM bailout or the Sailors bailout.
But whining socialism is a mental midgets stab at carrying the Rush flag for lack or any clue about a real understanding of economics much less socialist economics. I hope these aholes are scared out the socialist market and stay poor.
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Of course, you mean fascism.
 
Dixie said:
No, I am not getting it? How has one got anything to do with the other? With the S&L bailouts and Chrysler bailout, the Feds extended a one-time 'loan' to the corporations, with GM, they became majority shareholders, fired the CEO, and control the fucking company! Two ENTIRELY different things!

Got it?
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No. You're getting it in that the S&L bailout wasn't a "takeover," just like the GM bailout is not a "takeover."
 
Topspin said:
dixie you skinhead retard, you think the gov wants to hold that stock for 50 yrs or 50 months
I hope the republicans are chock full of assclowns like you. Then an Imbicile like Obama can still crush you weaklings AGAIN!!!:eek:
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yes, because they care only about control. Money is meaningless to them, they have an infinite supply, and human slaves in the form of citizens to back it up.
 
Onceler said:
No. You're getting it in that the S&L bailout wasn't a "takeover," just like the GM bailout is not a "takeover."
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Onzies... The Government owns 60% of GM! They control the fucking company! GM is America's largest manufacturing industry employer. How can you possibly claim that our government doesn't control means of production?
 
Dixie said:
Onzies... The Government owns 60% of GM! They control the fucking company! GM is America's largest manufacturing industry employer. How can you possibly claim that our government doesn't control means of production?
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because he's not a skinhead redneck Toby Kieth worshiping knuckle dragging creationist witchhunter like you.
 
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