Christianity, the religion for anti-intellectuals.

Cypress said:
Right, natural philosophical inquiry has a historical arc from Greek antiquity through the Christian high Middle Ages and into the modern era. The Islamic west had a golden age of intellectual inquiry, but it ended by the 13th century.

Skeptical inquiry and formal logic are pretty much unique to Western civilization.
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Aristotle invented formal logic.
 
Cypress said:
Paul thought he was living at the end of time, and people needed to prepare for the imminent kingdom of God.
Explain why you believe Paul should have been educating people in literacy, logic, and the maths given that context.

As a general rule, peasants, slaves, laborers, aka Paul's laity, are not intellectuals either then or now.

Anyone who has read Romans knows Paul is not an ignoramus.

Pope Francis is probably the most highly educated leader of a nation-state on the planet.

Western science and intellectual history is heavily in debt to Medieval Christian scholasticism, logic, natural philosophy, and the Catholic universities. Scholasticism inculcated a habit of disputation, logic, and skeptical inquiry which in many ways still undergirds modern science. That kind of organized disputation, logic, skeptical inquiry was unique to Europe and is probably a major reason empirical science first developed uniquely in Europe rather than anywhere else.

The problem is, most of us were taught in junior high school in the 1960s, 70s, ad 80s, that the Medieval period was a "dark age" utterly devoid of anything intellectually interesting and really just worth forgetting about. Anyone who has read the historical literature of the last 40 years, knows the High and Late Medieval Age was a dynamic period of European history pregnant with historically important developments in natural philosophy, logic, disputation, and skeptical inquiry which are largely attributable to Christian institutional evolution.
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it was dark in the sense that the Catholic church horded their findings for themselves while torturing peasants and selling dispensations.

and all their 'inquiry' was mostly word games and bullshit. and child molesting.
 
Lao Tse said:
it was dark in the sense that the Catholic church horded their findings for themselves while torturing peasants and selling dispensations.

and all their 'inquiry' was mostly word games and bullshit. and child molesting.
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No reputable historian calls the Middle Ages the Dark Ages anymore.

The High Middle Ages was ground zero for the reintroduction of higher learning, skeptical inquiry, natural philosophy, disputation, logic, and the invention of the university.


If you want to talk about moral depravity and depraved cruelty, the place to start is the 20th century with it's holocausts, world wars, mass genocides, and totalitarian state atheism.
 
Hume said:
Point is, Christians tried to suppress science and intellectual investigations.
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A gross exaggeration only worthy of an 7th grade history class.

The foundations of skeptical inquiry and scientific investigation are rooted in the Rennassaince of the 12th century, and the methods of disputation, logic, and skeptical inquiry associated with Christian scholastism.

Kepler and Copernicus were not persecuted by the church. Kepler specifically associated his scientific discoveries with divine agency and Copernicus served as a church official.

Most of Galileo's work was in physics and mechanics, which was never suppressed.
His work on heliocentrism is only convincing in hindsight because at the time Galileo couldn't explain the lack of stellar parallax and he didn't have Newton's laws of inertia. The persecution of Galileo was caught up in the politics of the Protestant reformation.

Harvard, Oxford, University of Paris were established by the religious orders.

Genetics and Big Bang Cosmology are attributable to Catholic monks.


The most significant thing that needs to be explained is why the tools of science - sustained skeptical inquiry, rational disputation, formal logic - uniquely evolved and were sustained in Christian Europe, and not anywhere else on the planet.
 
Cypress said:
No reputable historian calls the Middle Ages the Dark Ages anymore.

The High Middle Ages was ground zero for the reintroduction of higher learning, skeptical inquiry, natural philosophy, disputation, logic, and the invention of the university.


If you want to talk about moral depravity and depraved cruelty, the place to start is the 20th century with it's holocausts, world wars, mass genocides, and totalitarian state atheism.
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you're whitewashing a bloody and evil history of a devil church.

what about the inquisition?

you want to lead it I know, with your new "scientific" Nicene Creed that;s identical to the old one.

you're a purveyor of evil and distorter of truth and goodness.
 
Lao Tse said:
you're whitewashing a bloody and evil history of a devil church.

what about the inquisition?

you want to lead it I know, with your new "scientific" Nicene Creed that;s identical to the old one.

you're a purveyor of evil and distorter of truth and goodness.
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Again, if you want to turn the thread into a complaint about moral depravity, the place to start is the Gulag, the Holocaust, the Cultural Revolution which occurred under secular governments and made the Spanish inquisition utterly pale in comparison. They're not even in the same league.
 
Cypress said:
A gross exaggeration only worthy of an 7th grade history class.

The foundations of skeptical inquiry and scientific investigation are rooted in the Rennassaince of the 12th century, and the methods of disputation, logic, and skeptical inquiry associated with Christian scholastism.

Kepler and Copernicus were not persecuted by the church. Kepler specifically associated his scientific discoveries with divine agency and Copernicus served as a church official.

Most of Galileo's work was in physics and mechanics, which was never suppressed.
His work on heliocentrism is only convincing in hindsight because at the time Galileo couldn't explain the lack of stellar parallax and he didn't have Newton's laws of inertia. The persecution of Galileo was caught up in the politics of the Protestant reformation.

Harvard, Oxford, University of Paris were established by the religious orders.

Genetics and Big Bang Cosmology are attributable to Catholic monks.


The most significant thing that needs to be explained is why the tools of science - sustained skeptical inquiry, rational disputation, formal logic - uniquely evolved and were sustained in Christian Europe, and not anywhere else on the planet.
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fuck off
 
Daylight63 said:
The Christian Church hasn't always been anti-intellectual. There were some incredible thinkers who came out of the Church.

But these days we DO seem to see it going back the other way, with an elevation of "ignorance" as a virtue. Often because ignorance is something all of us share but if we are told that our ignorance is our strength and that, indeed, what we WANT to be true is most likely true by merit of our want.

It's hard to say if modern Americans are drawn to an anti-authority world view naturally or if our anti-authority view led us to be the most advanced nation on earth populated with people who largely don't understand the technical details of the world they live in and are so used to having their way that they assume THEY are the measure of all things.
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the golden rule is simple.
 
Cypress said:
Again, if you want to turn the thread into a complaint about moral depravity, the place to start is the Gulag, the Holocaust, the Cultural Revolution which occurred under secular governments and made the Spanish inquisition utterly pale in comparison. They're not even in the same league.
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Ill start with the church thanks, since that is the topic and you're a whitewashing liar on the topic.
 
Cypress said:
A gross exaggeration only worthy of an 7th grade history class.

The foundations of skeptical inquiry and scientific investigation are rooted in the Rennassaince of the 12th century, and the methods of disputation, logic, and skeptical inquiry associated with Christian scholastism.

Kepler and Copernicus were not persecuted by the church. Kepler specifically associated his scientific discoveries with divine agency and Copernicus served as a church official.

Most of Galileo's work was in physics and mechanics, which was never suppressed.
His work on heliocentrism is only convincing in hindsight because at the time Galileo couldn't explain the lack of stellar parallax and he didn't have Newton's laws of inertia. The persecution of Galileo was caught up in the politics of the Protestant reformation.

Harvard, Oxford, University of Paris were established by the religious orders.

Genetics and Big Bang Cosmology are attributable to Catholic monks.


The most significant thing that needs to be explained is why the tools of science - sustained skeptical inquiry, rational disputation, formal logic - uniquely evolved and were sustained in Christian Europe, and not anywhere else on the planet.
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no.

Catholics don't get credit for logic and reason.

your Masonic shit is so retarded, like you.

you don't even understand jesus' primary teaching. the golden rule.

you ignore the golden rule.
 
Lao Tse said:
Ill start with the church thanks, since that is the topic and you're a whitewashing liar on the topic.
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So you want to avoid discussing history's most diabolical moral depravities - the Gulag, the Holocaust, the Cultural Revolution, the Killing Fields - because they were committed by your secular atheist friends.
 
Cypress said:
So you want to avoid discussing history's most diabolical moral depravities - the Gulag, the Holocaust, the Cultural Revolution, the Killing Fields - because they were committed by your secular atheist friends.
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I do.

but you want to leave out the inquisition and a thousand years of child rape.
 
Lao Tse said:
Catholics don't get credit for logic and reason.
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As per usual, you're putting words in my mouth.

I intentionally and specifically said the Latin Christian West sustained logic, skeptical inquiry, and advanced the concepts of disputation and the university.

It doesn't do anyone any good if Aristotle invented formal logic, but then people forgot about it or didn't care.

The Islamic world cared about it for a few centuries but then gave up on it.

The Latin Christian West acquired the lost tools of logic and skeptical inquiry, and sustained and maintained throughout the High and Late Middle Ages, bridging the gap between antiquity and the early modern era.
 
Lao Tse said:
I do.

but you want to leave out the inquisition and a thousand years of child rape
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No, you are protecting your totalitarian atheist friends.

When you thought of moral depravity, the first thing your mind thought of was an inquisition in Spain 500 years ago - rather than history's most diabolical mass moral crimes which happened just in the last 80 years.
 
Cypress said:
No, you are protecting your totalitarian atheist friends.

When you thought of moral depravity, the first thing your mind thought of was an inquisition in Spain 500 years ago, rather than history's most diabolical mass moral crimes which happened just in the last 80 years.
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atheists are even worse than Catholics.
 
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