Please take a moment today….

[Dutch Uncle]

My estimate is that 100 percent of the established lefty posters here opposed invading Iraq, while at least 90 percent of the MAGA morons here cheered for invading Iraq......although they are reticent to admit it now.

That could be accurate but only among the posters, not the Democratic leadership.

The Democrats had long been labeled as doves and weak. If they wanted to beat GW in 2004, they needed to appear a bit more hawkish on post-9/11 America. Voting for the Iraq Resolution was one way to do that. When they flip-flopped and claimed "Bush lied" they appeared both weak and stupid. Stupid to all educated and intelligent Americans since they knew how Congress works.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

I did not support Iraq. I tacitly supported Afghanistan. I support all the troops.

I fully supported Afghanistan but not Iraq for the same reason General Powell didn't: no compelling reason for invasion and, mostly, no exit strategy. Only idiots believed it wouldn't turn into an occupation.

 

[Jarod]

I fully supported Afghanistan but not Iraq for the same reason General Powell didn't: no compelling reason for invasion and, mostly, no exit strategy. Only idiots believed it wouldn't turn into an occupation.

I believe you are lying.

 

[Jarod]

I believe you are lying.

of the people I knew back then 100% of those who supported Iraq are Trumppers.

Your type are susceptible to falling for that type of stuff.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

I believe you are lying.

You think I supported the Iraq invasion when all of the problems GW complained about could be solved by carpet bombing Saddam's palaces?

Why would I want American blood to be shed over a contrived excuse of WMDs?

 

[Dutch Uncle]

JFK was the one that started getting us deeper into it LBJ just kept it going.

JFK sent in advisors. LBJ sent in the US Marine Corps at Da Nang, March 1965....after the Gulf of Tonkin incident.

The Vietnam War: An Overview - The Wars for Viet Nam | The Wars for Vietnam | Vassar College

www.vassar.edu

At the time of the Kennedy and Diem assassinations, there were sixteen thousand American military advisers in Vietnam. The Kennedy administration had managed to run the war from Washington without the large-scale introduction of combat troops. The continuing political problems in Saigon, however, convinced the new president, Lyndon Baines Johnson, that more aggressive action was needed....

...On August 2, 1964, in response to American and South Vietnamese espionage along its coast, North Vietnam launched a local and controlled attack against an American ship on call in the Gulf of Tonkin. A second attack allegedly occurred on August 4, although Vo Nguyen Giap, the DRV’s leading military figure at the time, and Johnson’s secretary of defense, Robert S. McNamara, concluded in 1997 that no second attack ever took place. In any event, the Johnson administration used the supposed August 4 attack to secure a congressional resolution that gave the president broad war powers. The resolution, now known as the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution, passed both the House and Senate with only two dissenting votes (Senators Morse of Oregon and Gruening of Alaska). The resolution was followed by limited reprisal air attacks against North Vietnam.

 

[Jarod]

You think I supported the Iraq invasion when all of the problems GW complained about could be solved by carpet bombing Saddam's palaces?

Why would I want American blood to be shed over a contrived excuse of WMDs?

I believe you.

 

[Jarod]

I fully supported Afghanistan but not Iraq for the same reason General Powell didn't: no compelling reason for invasion and, mostly, no exit strategy. Only idiots believed it wouldn't turn into an occupation.

Every Bush war supporter I knew is now a Trumpper.

 

[Cypress]

JFK sent in advisors. LBJ sent in the US Marine Corps at Da Nang, March 1965....after the Gulf of Tonkin incident.

The Vietnam War: An Overview - The Wars for Viet Nam | The Wars for Vietnam | Vassar College

www.vassar.edu

At the time of the Kennedy and Diem assassinations, there were sixteen thousand American military advisers in Vietnam. The Kennedy administration had managed to run the war from Washington without the large-scale introduction of combat troops. The continuing political problems in Saigon, however, convinced the new president, Lyndon Baines Johnson, that more aggressive action was needed....

...On August 2, 1964, in response to American and South Vietnamese espionage along its coast, North Vietnam launched a local and controlled attack against an American ship on call in the Gulf of Tonkin. A second attack allegedly occurred on August 4, although Vo Nguyen Giap, the DRV’s leading military figure at the time, and Johnson’s secretary of defense, Robert S. McNamara, concluded in 1997 that no second attack ever took place. In any event, the Johnson administration used the supposed August 4 attack to secure a congressional resolution that gave the president broad war powers. The resolution, now known as the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution, passed both the House and Senate with only two dissenting votes (Senators Morse of Oregon and Gruening of Alaska). The resolution was followed by limited reprisal air attacks against North Vietnam.

True.

It's the easiest thing in the world to look in the rear view mirror with the benefit of hindsight, and identify all the bad decisions made regarding the Vietnam war.

If we didn't have a rear view mirror and we all were living in 1964 in a Cold War mindset, there's a very probability at least 90 percent of us on this forum would have supported US military action in Southeast Asia.

Iraq was different. It seemed super sketchy from the get go, and at least 40 to 50 percent of Americans thought invading was a stupid idea even before the first shot was fired.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Because they told you it was patriotic to think that way, and if we didn’t we would have another 9-11. Fight them over there instead of here and all that bullshit. FREEDOM FRIES!

While the unwashed rubes, both left and right, fell for that nonsense, anyone with military, intelligence or geopolitical experience knew such claims were political hogwash.

1. Hussein's refusal to let his "palaces" be inspected called for a B-52 strike, not an invasion.
2. The US invading any Middle Eastern country without clear cause was certain to unite more Jihadists than gain their trust.
3. Only fucking morons believed the Iraqis would be so grateful at being liberated that they'd happily give Bush and his oil buddies all of their oil.

FWIW, anyone with military, intelligence or geopolitical experience knew it was only a matter of time before another major Jihadist attack happened on US soil. The idiots obviously didn't learn anything from the 1993 WTC bombing. While the audacity and effectiveness of the terrorist attack on 9/11 surprised many, including me, it wasn't a surprise that they wanted to kill us. This had been happening for years outside the US.

What did surprise me is that so many Americans turned into wimps and lived in fear after 9/11. So much fear that they happily supported the Patriot Act and spit on American Sikhs thinking they were "A-rabs". There was the usual "tie a yellow ribbon" bullshit when we sent our troops to Afghanistan, but most Americans were happy to let it be someone else's son, father or brother.

IMO, the worst thing we did for our nation was eliminate the draft. Fix it to make it more equitable? Sure. Allow a non-military option? Sure. Get rid of it completely? We end up with draft-dodgers and chickenhawks in the White House and Congress.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

True.

It's the easiest thing in the world to look in the rear view mirror with the benefit of hindsight, and identify all the bad decisions made regarding the Vietnam war.

If we didn't have a rear view mirror and we all were living in 1964 in a Cold War mindset, there's a very probability at least 90 percent of us on this forum would have supported US military action in Southeast Asia.

Iraq was different. It seemed super sketchy from the get go, and at least 40 to 50 percent of Americans thought invading was a stupid idea even before the first shot was fired.

Agreed about hindsight. Not sure if the percentage was that high given how many Democrats in Congress, especially the Senate, supported the Iraq resolution.

A Look Back at How Fear and False Beliefs Bolstered U.S. Public Support for War in Iraq

Twenty years ago this month, the U.S. launched a major invasion of Iraq. President George W. Bush and his administration at first drew broad public support for the use of military force. Yet the campaign soon left Americans deeply divided, and by 2019, 62% said the Iraq War was not worth fighting.

www.pewresearch.org

 

[Jarod]

While the unwashed rubes, both left and right, fell for that nonsense, anyone with military, intelligence or geopolitical experience knew such claims were political hogwash.

1. Hussein's refusal to let his "palaces" be inspected called for a B-52 strike, not an invasion.
2. The US invading any Middle Eastern country without clear cause was certain to unite more Jihadists than gain their trust.
3. Only fucking morons believed the Iraqis would be so grateful at being liberated that they'd happily give Bush and his oil buddies all of their oil.

FWIW, anyone with military, intelligence or geopolitical experience knew it was only a matter of time before another major Jihadist attack happened on US soil. The idiots obviously didn't learn anything from the 1993 WTC bombing. While the audacity and effectiveness of the terrorist attack on 9/11 surprised many, including me, it wasn't a surprise that they wanted to kill us. This had been happening for years outside the US.

What did surprise me is that so many Americans turned into wimps and lived in fear after 9/11. So much fear that they happily supported the Patriot Act and spit on American Sikhs thinking they were "A-rabs". There was the usual "tie a yellow ribbon" bullshit when we sent our troops to Afghanistan, but most Americans were happy to let it be someone else's son, father or brother.

IMO, the worst thing we did for our nation was eliminate the draft. Fix it to make it more equitable? Sure. Allow a non-military option? Sure. Get rid of it completely? We end up with draft-dodgers and chickenhawks in the White House and Congress.

Make the draft is the elites children would be required to go, that would end war

 

[Earl]

Make the draft is the elites children would be required to go, that would end war

Try English next time.

Good grief.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Make the draft is the elites children would be required to go, that would end war

Hence the term "equitable". No buyouts. No free passes.

OTOH, by including a non-military option, is there any doubt that most of the elite's progeny would end up digging wells in Kenyan villages or as typists at a stateside military base? LOL

Still, the main point is to drag them away from their mommy's apron strings and teach them about duty, honor, country. Hopefully with at least one 6-12 month tour outside the US.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Try English next time.

Good grief.

Speaking of "Good grief".....

 

[Cypress]

Agreed about hindsight. Not sure if the percentage was that high given how many Democrats in Congress, especially the Senate, supported the Iraq resolution.

A Look Back at How Fear and False Beliefs Bolstered U.S. Public Support for War in Iraq

Twenty years ago this month, the U.S. launched a major invasion of Iraq. President George W. Bush and his administration at first drew broad public support for the use of military force. Yet the campaign soon left Americans deeply divided, and by 2019, 62% said the Iraq War was not worth fighting.

www.pewresearch.org

Bush and Blair told Americans Iraq was an ally of Al Qaeda, Iraq was developing nuclear weapons, and they could launch a WMD sneak attack within 45 minutes. Yes, they did manage to manipulate movement in the polls the last few weeks before the invasion.

There were gigantic protests against invading Iraq even before the first shot was fired. It wasn't until three to four years into the Vietnam War that there were significant anti-war demonstrations.

In the cultural mindset of the Cold War in 1965, unrelenting Communist aggression and the Domino theory were probably very convincing to Americans of that era as a justification for war.

I detected massive amounts of skepticism about invading Iraq long before the first bombs were dropped. To huge amounts of people, the justifications being given to invade Iraq just didn't add up.

 

[Nordberg]

Republicans and NeoCons belatedly want to pretend they did not start the Iraq War, and the orange-colored Messiah leading their party belatedly calls the Iraq war a grave mistake based on lies (even though he supported the invasion).

If any veterans are at risk of feeling their service was pointless and unappreciated, it starts with Iraq war vets.

It was not pointless. The Brits and Bush divided up the oil. https://independentaustralia.net/po...-troops-to-iraq-for-bps-share-of-its-oil,3349

 

[EdwinA]

This post is total rubbish, apparently you don't remember that it was Nixon that abandon Vietnam.

More stupid rubbish. Doesn't know what Congress does. Typical for foreigners to not know basic shit about the U.S.

 

[EdwinA]

Such a storm of foolish BS.

Yes, facts amaze you no end.

 

[EdwinA]

And I don't give a shit who got us involved it started with IKE putting advisors in there, JFK put more in and LBJ got us in even deeper and Nixon is the one that walked away from the South Vietnamese.
My point of this whole thing is I am glad to see the NAM vets are finally being recognized for their service ,

Fucking idiot. Nixon wasn't in office in 1975, you blithering simpleton.