Ignorance and the Bible

[domer76]

there is true wisdom in the teachings, if you can ignore the "setting".

some teachings are tribal.

some aren't.


thats the main moral lead between christainity and Judaism.

“Setting” in the sense of your formative environment. Where and when you were born, to whom, the cultural norms, both locally and nationally. And your tribe.

Born and raised in small town Utah? Probably a Mormon.
Born and raised in small town in South? Probably a Southern Baptist.
Irish descent from Boston? Catholic.
Saudi Arabia? Muslim
Israel? Jew

On and on.

 

[gmark77]

Keeping Creation Science out of public schools can be achieved in the court rooms, not in the ballot box.

I want to win elections. Mocking Christianity is not going to win elections, and it will actually lose votes. There aren't enough atheists to win elections. Democrats are now routinely losing elections in Midwestern and Appalachian states that they used to routinely win. These states are economically populist but they are also socially conservative. And the Democratic Party has a loud fringe minority that is ignoring that electoral fact.

1) No one is really mocking Christianity here.

2) This is a discussion about faith and not about "winning elections". Unless the goal is to shut down the conversation introducing "winning elections" into the conversation really doesn't matter.

 

[domer76]

what is unorganized religion about?

You’ll have to ask someone that claims to be a member.

 

[gmark77]

I've already told you that it's not possible to prove a religion.

Then you'll understand how absurd it is to ask someone to prove the lack of existence of God.

 

[gmark77]

Nonsense...and you are too intelligent to continue to kid yourself about this.

You were asked a question earlier, "Do you also lack a belief that there are no gods?"

Maybe you can honestly answer that "no"...BUT...you do NOT lack a belief that it is more likely that there are no gods than that there is one.

AND THAT IS A "BELIEF."

If you think not, give me the odds for both options...and how you calculated them.


No it isn't. Atheism is a descriptor...one which an individual can choose to use. You do not lack "belief." We've already established that.


Okay. But you do not lack a belief that it is more likely that there are no gods than that there is at least one.

Why is it so hard for you to acknowledge that that is the reason you choose to use "atheist" as a self-descriptor?

No...it really is not.

Atheism is simply the lack of belief in God.

There are some atheists (not all by any stretch) who make a positive claim "God does not exist". This is not possible to support logically.

Atheism is also simply a lack of belief.

Just as you lack belief in elves even though Bjork says they are real. You don't believe Elves don't exist, you lack belief in elves.

 

[Into the Night]

It is quite humorous that those who are the most ignorant on the Bible are those who profess to be Bible thumping Christians. The scholars, people who actually STUDY the Bible for a living, are mostly atheists. And they became atheists only AFTER their deep study led them to that conclusion.

If the Bible stories that defy all laws of science and nature were written today, by an author we could actually talk to about his veracity, we would label it as science fiction.

But, since it was written by several unknown authors 2000 years ago, the believers take it as fact. Delusional. Willfully ignorant. Intellectually lazy.

A fact is not ignorance or laziness.
Go learn what 'fact' means. Yes...Christians take the Bible as fact.

 

[Into the Night]

Too many people lack the ability to think critically.

Oh boy! More demonstrations of Sybil's illiteracy in philosophy!

 

[gmark77]

Nonsense...and you are too intelligent to continue to kid yourself about this.

You were asked a question earlier, "Do you also lack a belief that there are no gods?"

Maybe you can honestly answer that "no"...BUT...you do NOT lack a belief that it is more likely that there are no gods than that there is one.

AND THAT IS A "BELIEF."

If you think not, give me the odds for both options...and how you calculated them.


No it isn't. Atheism is a descriptor...one which an individual can choose to use. You do not lack "belief." We've already established that.


Okay. But you do not lack a belief that it is more likely that there are no gods than that there is at least one.

Why is it so hard for you to acknowledge that that is the reason you choose to use "atheist" as a self-descriptor?

No...it really is not.

I am what is called an "IMPLICIT atheist".

What kind of atheist are you?

Written by Guest author by Mike Flood At Milton Keynes Humanists’ monthly meetings, we are always pleased to welcome new people, and many come with questions about atheism — “What exactly is an atheist?” “How does atheism differ from agnosticism?” and “How do you define humanism?” So we thought...

humanists.uk

 

[Into the Night]

Then you'll understand how absurd it is to ask someone to prove the lack of existence of God.

Correct, which makes the Church of No God a religion.

 

[Into the Night]

Atheism is simply the lack of belief in God.

Nope. Atheism doesn't care whether any god or gods exist or not. Both science and mathematics are completely atheistic. So is logic.

There are some atheists (not all by any stretch) who make a positive claim "God does not exist".

That is not atheism. That is a religion I call the Church of No God. It is a fundamentalist style religion.

This is not possible to support logically.

Atheism is also simply a lack of belief.

Atheism believes all kinds of things, such as the validity of science, mathematics, and logic.

Just as you lack belief in elves even though Bjork says they are real. You don't believe Elves don't exist, you lack belief in elves.

Another religious statement.

 

[gfm7175]

Then you'll understand how absurd it is to ask someone to prove the lack of existence of God.

Yup, and I'm not asking anyone to prove that.

 

[Cypress]

1) No one is really mocking Christianity here.

2) This is a discussion about faith and not about "winning elections". Unless the goal is to shut down the conversation introducing "winning elections" into the conversation really doesn't matter.

I think mocking Christianity does happen frequently, and I've been guilty of it myself.

When you mock Christianity on the internet, the odds almost certain you are going to acquire the habit of mocking it in public. I participate in a public discussion group where Christians are routinely the butt of jokes, and Christianity is openly mocked.

The accumulation of that kind of attitude over the years and decades is ultimately going to cause liberalism a reputation of intolerance towards religion.

You might not care about winning elections. But I am dead certain Democrats are now losing socially conservative states they should be winning because of the perception a vocal minority has hijacked the party into a type of uncompromising secularism and moral relativism that just doesn't sell in formerly blue and purple flyover and rust belt states like Wisconsin, Iowa, Ohio, West Virginia, Michigan, Pennsylvania

 

[domer76]

I think mocking Christianity does happen frequently, and I've been guilty of it myself.

When you mock Christianity on the internet, the odds almost certain you are going to acquire the habit of mocking it in public. I participate in a public discussion group where Christians are routinely the butt of jokes, and Christianity is openly mocked.

The accumulation of that kind of attitude over the years and decades is ultimately going to cause liberalism a reputation of intolerance towards religion.

You might not care about winning elections. But I am dead certain Democrats are now losing socially conservative states they should be winning because of the perception a vocal minority has hijacked the party into a type of uncompromising secularism and moral relativism that just doesn't sell in formerly blue and purple flyover and rust belt states like Wisconsin, Iowa, Ohio, West Virginia, Michigan, Pennsylvania

You are correct.

It’s better to openly lie about your piety, fake it or merely pander to the religious right to maintain power.

Trump is the perfect example of all of the above. The antithesis of what a Christian professes to be, yet garners their votes.

“Two Corinthians”. They cringed at his massive ignorance of the Bible, yet vote for him anyway.

 

[Cypress]

You are correct.

It’s better to openly lie about your piety, fake it or merely pander to the religious right to maintain power.

Trump is the perfect example of all of the above. The antithesis of what a Christian professes to be, yet garners their votes.

“Two Corinthians”. They cringed at his massive ignorance of the Bible, yet vote for him anyway.

If you hold religion in utter disdain you shouldn't lie about it.

But a lot of parents teach their kids if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say it at all.

Now, if you want Democrats to keep losing elections, you should encourage the party to be openly hostile to and dismissive of religion.

Personally, I'm not interested in continuing to shrink the map of states Dems can compete in.

 

[domer76]

If you hold religion in utter disdain you shouldn't lie about it.

But a lot of parents teach their kids if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say it at all.

Now, if you want Democrats to keep losing elections, you should encourage the party to be openly hostile to and dismissive of religion.

Personally, I'm not interested in continuing to shrink the map of states Dems can compete in.

Perhaps one shouldn’t lie about it, but politicians do and Trump is particularly adept at it. And the Christian right will ignore anything to retain their political power, as well.

At this point, I don’t give a shit about the feckless Democrats. Until they get their shit together, I have no use for them.

 

[Cypress]

Perhaps one shouldn’t lie about it, but politicians do and Trump is particularly adept at it. And the Christian right will ignore anything to retain their political power, as well.

At this point, I don’t give a shit about the feckless Democrats. Until they get their shit together, I have no use for them.

If you aren't committed to Democrats winning, then you in effect are ensuring MAGA consolidates their power.

I personally am not interested in a vocal minority of militant secularists and moral relativists costing my party more elections. We can win on social security, infrastructure, public education. We aren't going to win by mocking Christianity or supporting transgenders competing on women's NCAA teams. That's not a hill the Democratic Party should choose to die on.

 

[domer76]

If you aren't committed to Democrats winning, then you in effect are ensuring MAGA consolidates their power.

I personally am not interested in a vocal minority of militant secularists and moral relativists costing my party more elections. We can win on social security, infrastructure, public education. We aren't going to win by mocking Christianity or supporting transgenders competing on women's NCAA teams. That's not a hill the Democratic Party should choose to die on.

The right was particularly adept, and still are, at creating a huge shitstorm over inconsequential issues. The transgender one being a prime example. Of 500,000 or so college athletes, there are 10 or so transgenders. So insignificant as to be a non-issue. But the right exploited it well.

Until the Dems figure out how to fight the viral lies from the Republicans that the ignorant masses eat up, all the mundane stuff like infrastructure and public education will go unheard.

You know what they DO hear? Illegals are committing all the crime, taking your jobs, voting and collecting welfare. They hear public education and universities are bastions of indoctrination. They hear “woke” when they don’t even know what it means. The list of lies is long and the right excels at spreading them.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Kind of a catchall description of all atheists, isn’t it? I would reject that premise.

There’s a difference between other institutions and religious ones. The penalty for those other organizations might be lack of a promotion or pay or status. Things of that nature. The penalty from your churches is excommunication or eternal damnation. A tad bit different in severity, wouldn’t you say?

A catchall just like that of Christians. As @Cypress and I have discussed, not all Christians are alike as atheists would like to label.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

True that Christians are the main target when atheists go on the attack mode. That’s because this country is mainly a Christian nation and the Christian right is the group trying to put their stamp on our society. In our government, our institutions our businesses and especially our schools. You don’t see that from the other religions. The same arguments still apply to the others, however.

Soooo....atheists aren't very worldly. Interesting but agreed. They're like MAGAts.

 

[Ross Dolan]

Atheism is simply the lack of belief in God.

There are some atheists (not all by any stretch) who make a positive claim "God does not exist". This is not possible to support logically.

Atheism is also simply a lack of belief.

Just as you lack belief in elves even though Bjork says they are real. You don't believe Elves don't exist, you lack belief in elves.

Atheism is simply a word...a self-descriptor word. A person chooses to use it as a self-descriptor...and damn near EVERY person who chooses to use it to describe self...uses it because of a "belief"...a guess about the reality of existence.

Atheism is as much a product of "belief" as is theism...although atheists want to view themselves as being without beliefs, so they pretend the reason they use the word as a self-descriptor is because they lack belief.

Apparently you are not prepared to see the truth on this at this time. Okay...that happens. The MAGA element among us is not prepared to see the great damage Trump is doing to our country and its values.

You have the right to that pretense. I challenge it simply because it is being presented in a forum where challenges of this sort are a part of the game.