If God were real, you wouldn’t need a book

Whether it can be demonstrated that God exists?

Objection 1:
It seems that the existence of God cannot be demonstrated. For it is an article of faith that God exists. But what is of faith cannot be demonstrated, because a demonstration produces scientific knowledge; whereas faith is of the unseen (Heb. 11:1). Therefore it cannot be demonstrated that God exists.


Objection 2: Further, the essence is the middle term of demonstration. But we cannot know in what God's essence consists, but solely in what it does not consist; as Damascene says (De Fide Orth. i, 4). Therefore we cannot demonstrate that God exists.

Objection 3: Further, if the existence of God were demonstrated, this could only be from His effects. But His effects are not proportionate to Him, since He is infinite and His effects are finite; and between the finite and infinite there is no proportion. Therefore, since a cause cannot be demonstrated by an effect not proportionate to it, it seems that the existence of God cannot be demonstrated.

On the contrary, The Apostle says: "The invisible things of Him are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made" (Rom. 1:20). But this would not be unless the existence of God could be demonstrated through the things that are made; for the first thing we must know of anything is whether it exists.


I answer that, Demonstration can be made in two ways: One is through the cause, and is called "a priori," and this is to argue from what is prior absolutely. The other is through the effect, and is called a demonstration "a posteriori"; this is to argue from what is prior relatively only to us. When an effect is better known to us than its cause, from the effect we proceed to the knowledge of the cause. And from every effect the existence of its proper cause can be demonstrated, so long as its effects are better known to us; because since every effect depends upon its cause, if the effect exists, the cause must pre-exist. Hence the existence of God, in so far as it is not self-evident to us, can be demonstrated from those of His effects which are known to us.

Reply to Objection 1: The existence of God and other like truths about God, which can be known by natural reason, are not articles of faith, but are preambles to the articles; for faith presupposes natural knowledge, even as grace presupposes nature, and perfection supposes something that can be perfected. Nevertheless, there is nothing to prevent a man, who cannot grasp a proof, accepting, as a matter of faith, something which in itself is capable of being scientifically known and demonstrated.

Reply to Objection 2: When the existence of a cause is demonstrated from an effect, this effect takes the place of the definition of the cause in proof of the cause's existence. This is especially the case in regard to God, because, in order to prove the existence of anything, it is necessary to accept as a middle term the meaning of the word, and not its essence, for the question of its essence follows on the question of its existence. Now the names given to God are derived from His effects; consequently, in demonstrating the existence of God from His effects, we may take for the middle term the meaning of the word "God".


Reply to Objection 3: From effects not proportionate to the cause no perfect knowledge of that cause can be obtained. Yet from every effect the existence of the cause can be clearly demonstrated, and so we can demonstrate the existence of God from His effects; though from them we cannot perfectly know God as He is in His essence.

The first and more manifest way is the argument from motion. It is certain, and evident to our senses, that in the world some things are in motion. Now whatever is in motion is put in motion by another, for nothing can be in motion except it is in potentiality to that towards which it is in motion; whereas a thing moves inasmuch as it is in act. For motion is nothing else than the reduction of something from potentiality to actuality. But nothing can be reduced from potentiality to actuality, except by something in a state of actuality. Thus that which is actually hot, as fire, makes wood, which is potentially hot, to be actually hot, and thereby moves and changes it. Now it is not possible that the same thing should be at once in actuality and potentiality in the same respect, but only in different respects. For what is actually hot cannot simultaneously be potentially hot; but it is simultaneously potentially cold. It is therefore impossible that in the same respect and in the same way a thing should be both mover and moved, i.e. that it should move itself. Therefore, whatever is in motion must be put in motion by another. If that by which it is put in motion be itself put in motion, then this also must needs be put in motion by another, and that by another again. But this cannot go on to infinity, because then there would be no first mover, and, consequently, no other mover; seeing that subsequent movers move only inasmuch as they are put in motion by the first mover; as the staff moves only because it is put in motion by the hand. Therefore it is necessary to arrive at a first mover, put in motion by no other; and this everyone understands to be God.

The second way is from the nature of the efficient cause. In the world of sense we find there is an order of efficient causes. There is no case known (neither is it, indeed, possible) in which a thing is found to be the efficient cause of itself; for so it would be prior to itself, which is impossible. Now in efficient causes it is not possible to go on to infinity, because in all efficient causes following in order, the first is the cause of the intermediate cause, and the intermediate is the cause of the ultimate cause, whether the intermediate cause be several, or only one. Now to take away the cause is to take away the effect. Therefore, if there be no first cause among efficient causes, there will be no ultimate, nor any intermediate cause. But if in efficient causes it is possible to go on to infinity, there will be no first efficient cause, neither will there be an ultimate effect, nor any intermediate efficient causes; all of which is plainly false. Therefore it is necessary to admit a first efficient cause, to which everyone gives the name of God.

The third way is taken from possibility and necessity, and runs thus. We find in nature things that are possible to be and not to be, since they are found to be generated, and to corrupt, and consequently, they are possible to be and not to be. But it is impossible for these always to exist, for that which is possible not to be at some time is not. Therefore, if everything is possible not to be, then at one time there could have been nothing in existence. Now if this were true, even now there would be nothing in existence, because that which does not exist only begins to exist by something already existing. Therefore, if at one time nothing was in existence, it would have been impossible for anything to have begun to exist; and thus even now nothing would be in existence---which is absurd. Therefore, not all beings are merely possible, but there must exist something the existence of which is necessary. But every necessary thing either has its necessity caused by another, or not. Now it is impossible to go on to infinity in necessary things which have their necessity caused by another, as has been already proved in regard to efficient causes. Therefore we cannot but postulate the existence of some being having of itself its own necessity, and not receiving it from another, but rather causing in others their necessity. This all men speak of as God.

The fourth way is taken from the gradation to be found in things. Among beings there are some more and some less good, true, noble and the like. But "more" and "less" are predicated of different things, according as they resemble in their different ways something which is the maximum, as a thing is said to be hotter according as it more nearly resembles that which is hottest; so that there is something which is truest, something best, something noblest and, consequently, something which is uttermost being; for those things that are greatest in truth are greatest in being, as it is written in Metaph. ii. Now the maximum in any genus is the cause of all in that genus; as fire, which is the maximum heat, is the cause of all hot things. Therefore there must also be something which is to all beings the cause of their being, goodness, and every other perfection; and this we call God.
The fifth way is taken from the governance of the world. We see that things which lack intelligence, such as natural bodies, act for an end, and this is evident from their acting always, or nearly always, in the same way, so as to obtain the best result. Hence it is plain that not fortuitously, but designedly, do they achieve their end. Now whatever lacks intelligence cannot move towards an end, unless it be directed by some being endowed with knowledge and intelligence; as the arrow is shot to its mark by the archer. Therefore some intelligent being exists by whom all natural things are directed to their end; and this being we call God.

Reply to Objection 1: As Augustine says (Enchiridion xi): "Since God is the highest good, He would not allow any evil to exist in His works, unless His omnipotence and goodness were such as to bring good even out of evil." This is part of the infinite goodness of God, that He should allow evil to exist, and out of it produce good.

Reply to Objection 2: Since nature works for a determinate end under the direction of a higher agent, whatever is done by nature must needs be traced back to God, as to its first cause. So also whatever is done voluntarily must also be traced back to some higher cause other than human reason or will, since these can change or fail; for all things that are changeable and capable of defect must be traced back to an immovable and self-necessary first principle, as was shown in the body of the Article.



Some claimed to have refuted his logic, but when one reads these 'refutations' they merely invent new definitions of the word 'God' and thus avoid a real refutation and proceed to beat on strawmen. They never refute his actual arguments.
 
I look forward to your references. :thup:

UN


Association of Genocide Scholars (IAGS)
Two Israeli based organizations
B'Tselem
Physicians for Human Rights-Israel


Amnesty International


That’s five. Need more?
 
Whether it can be demonstrated that God exists?

Objection 1:
It seems that the existence of God cannot be demonstrated. For it is an article of faith that God exists. But what is of faith cannot be demonstrated, because a demonstration produces scientific knowledge; whereas faith is of the unseen (Heb. 11:1). Therefore it cannot be demonstrated that God exists.


Objection 2: Further, the essence is the middle term of demonstration. But we cannot know in what God's essence consists, but solely in what it does not consist; as Damascene says (De Fide Orth. i, 4). Therefore we cannot demonstrate that God exists.

Objection 3: Further, if the existence of God were demonstrated, this could only be from His effects. But His effects are not proportionate to Him, since He is infinite and His effects are finite; and between the finite and infinite there is no proportion. Therefore, since a cause cannot be demonstrated by an effect not proportionate to it, it seems that the existence of God cannot be demonstrated.

On the contrary, The Apostle says: "The invisible things of Him are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made" (Rom. 1:20). But this would not be unless the existence of God could be demonstrated through the things that are made; for the first thing we must know of anything is whether it exists.


I answer that, Demonstration can be made in two ways: One is through the cause, and is called "a priori," and this is to argue from what is prior absolutely. The other is through the effect, and is called a demonstration "a posteriori"; this is to argue from what is prior relatively only to us. When an effect is better known to us than its cause, from the effect we proceed to the knowledge of the cause. And from every effect the existence of its proper cause can be demonstrated, so long as its effects are better known to us; because since every effect depends upon its cause, if the effect exists, the cause must pre-exist. Hence the existence of God, in so far as it is not self-evident to us, can be demonstrated from those of His effects which are known to us.

Reply to Objection 1: The existence of God and other like truths about God, which can be known by natural reason, are not articles of faith, but are preambles to the articles; for faith presupposes natural knowledge, even as grace presupposes nature, and perfection supposes something that can be perfected. Nevertheless, there is nothing to prevent a man, who cannot grasp a proof, accepting, as a matter of faith, something which in itself is capable of being scientifically known and demonstrated.

Reply to Objection 2: When the existence of a cause is demonstrated from an effect, this effect takes the place of the definition of the cause in proof of the cause's existence. This is especially the case in regard to God, because, in order to prove the existence of anything, it is necessary to accept as a middle term the meaning of the word, and not its essence, for the question of its essence follows on the question of its existence. Now the names given to God are derived from His effects; consequently, in demonstrating the existence of God from His effects, we may take for the middle term the meaning of the word "God".


Reply to Objection 3: From effects not proportionate to the cause no perfect knowledge of that cause can be obtained. Yet from every effect the existence of the cause can be clearly demonstrated, and so we can demonstrate the existence of God from His effects; though from them we cannot perfectly know God as He is in His essence.

The first and more manifest way is the argument from motion. It is certain, and evident to our senses, that in the world some things are in motion. Now whatever is in motion is put in motion by another, for nothing can be in motion except it is in potentiality to that towards which it is in motion; whereas a thing moves inasmuch as it is in act. For motion is nothing else than the reduction of something from potentiality to actuality. But nothing can be reduced from potentiality to actuality, except by something in a state of actuality. Thus that which is actually hot, as fire, makes wood, which is potentially hot, to be actually hot, and thereby moves and changes it. Now it is not possible that the same thing should be at once in actuality and potentiality in the same respect, but only in different respects. For what is actually hot cannot simultaneously be potentially hot; but it is simultaneously potentially cold. It is therefore impossible that in the same respect and in the same way a thing should be both mover and moved, i.e. that it should move itself. Therefore, whatever is in motion must be put in motion by another. If that by which it is put in motion be itself put in motion, then this also must needs be put in motion by another, and that by another again. But this cannot go on to infinity, because then there would be no first mover, and, consequently, no other mover; seeing that subsequent movers move only inasmuch as they are put in motion by the first mover; as the staff moves only because it is put in motion by the hand. Therefore it is necessary to arrive at a first mover, put in motion by no other; and this everyone understands to be God.

The second way is from the nature of the efficient cause. In the world of sense we find there is an order of efficient causes. There is no case known (neither is it, indeed, possible) in which a thing is found to be the efficient cause of itself; for so it would be prior to itself, which is impossible. Now in efficient causes it is not possible to go on to infinity, because in all efficient causes following in order, the first is the cause of the intermediate cause, and the intermediate is the cause of the ultimate cause, whether the intermediate cause be several, or only one. Now to take away the cause is to take away the effect. Therefore, if there be no first cause among efficient causes, there will be no ultimate, nor any intermediate cause. But if in efficient causes it is possible to go on to infinity, there will be no first efficient cause, neither will there be an ultimate effect, nor any intermediate efficient causes; all of which is plainly false. Therefore it is necessary to admit a first efficient cause, to which everyone gives the name of God.

The third way is taken from possibility and necessity, and runs thus. We find in nature things that are possible to be and not to be, since they are found to be generated, and to corrupt, and consequently, they are possible to be and not to be. But it is impossible for these always to exist, for that which is possible not to be at some time is not. Therefore, if everything is possible not to be, then at one time there could have been nothing in existence. Now if this were true, even now there would be nothing in existence, because that which does not exist only begins to exist by something already existing. Therefore, if at one time nothing was in existence, it would have been impossible for anything to have begun to exist; and thus even now nothing would be in existence---which is absurd. Therefore, not all beings are merely possible, but there must exist something the existence of which is necessary. But every necessary thing either has its necessity caused by another, or not. Now it is impossible to go on to infinity in necessary things which have their necessity caused by another, as has been already proved in regard to efficient causes. Therefore we cannot but postulate the existence of some being having of itself its own necessity, and not receiving it from another, but rather causing in others their necessity. This all men speak of as God.

The fourth way is taken from the gradation to be found in things. Among beings there are some more and some less good, true, noble and the like. But "more" and "less" are predicated of different things, according as they resemble in their different ways something which is the maximum, as a thing is said to be hotter according as it more nearly resembles that which is hottest; so that there is something which is truest, something best, something noblest and, consequently, something which is uttermost being; for those things that are greatest in truth are greatest in being, as it is written in Metaph. ii. Now the maximum in any genus is the cause of all in that genus; as fire, which is the maximum heat, is the cause of all hot things. Therefore there must also be something which is to all beings the cause of their being, goodness, and every other perfection; and this we call God.
The fifth way is taken from the governance of the world. We see that things which lack intelligence, such as natural bodies, act for an end, and this is evident from their acting always, or nearly always, in the same way, so as to obtain the best result. Hence it is plain that not fortuitously, but designedly, do they achieve their end. Now whatever lacks intelligence cannot move towards an end, unless it be directed by some being endowed with knowledge and intelligence; as the arrow is shot to its mark by the archer. Therefore some intelligent being exists by whom all natural things are directed to their end; and this being we call God.

Reply to Objection 1: As Augustine says (Enchiridion xi): "Since God is the highest good, He would not allow any evil to exist in His works, unless His omnipotence and goodness were such as to bring good even out of evil." This is part of the infinite goodness of God, that He should allow evil to exist, and out of it produce good.

Reply to Objection 2: Since nature works for a determinate end under the direction of a higher agent, whatever is done by nature must needs be traced back to God, as to its first cause. So also whatever is done voluntarily must also be traced back to some higher cause other than human reason or will, since these can change or fail; for all things that are changeable and capable of defect must be traced back to an immovable and self-necessary first principle, as was shown in the body of the Article.



Some claimed to have refuted his logic, but when one reads these 'refutations' they merely invent new definitions of the word 'God' and thus avoid a real refutation and proceed to beat on strawmen. They never refute his actual arguments.
The Summa Theologica, for the most part, is bullshit. It sounds scholarly (which is what Thomas intended), but it reduces to "My blind guess is that there is a god."

There is absolutely nothing wrong with that blind guess...and it may be a correct guess. But so might a blind guess of, "There are no god"...which many others have made.

I, personally, have no idea of which is correct...and I see no unambiguous evidence that causes me to favor one side or the other on the issue.
 
Irrelevant.
Well, no, not really. It's actually very relevant if you're claiming that Party A is trying to completely destroy Party B.
The Arabs were exterminated by the IDF.
Some Arabs were killed by IDF. Some Jews were killed by Arabs....but "some" isn't genocide.
Tens of thousands of Arab children had to be fished out of rubble, or remain buried, because of pure HATRED by Israelis intent on perpetrating the 2nd Nakba.
Yes, men women and children die in war. It's horrible to see and even more difficult to rationalize, but children dying in war, which has happened in every war, does not mean there is a genocide.
Stupid question. Israeli snipers targeting Arab children waiting in line for food by itself demonstrates beyond any doubt that Israel intends to exterminate Arabs.
Even if that is true, which I don't believe it is, that is not genocide. Again, genocide is the intent to destroy an entire group. So far, you have not shown that Israel is committing genocide.
The IDF's genocide of Arabs in Gaza meets the official definition of "genocide" as ratified by Israel and the US, among others.
You claiming that it is genocide does not make it genocide. So far, all you have said is that IDF is killing Arabs. Arabs are also killing Israelis. Genocide means that one group is trying to destroy another group. So far, you have not demonstrated that is happening. In fact, the evidence clearly points to the fact that Israel is not trying to commit genocide.
 
Yep, it's totally irrelevant trivia.



FTFY. Those are called war crimes.
Right, so what is your evidence for genocide? Any individual war crimes that may have happened are not automatically genocide.

On October 7, 2021, Hamas fighters killed about 1,000 Israeli civilians in 8 hours, using nothing but handheld guns and knives. If they maintained that rate of murder, that would be 3,000 per day and would total just over 2 million in 2 years since the war started.

Israel, an actual military, with actual military weapons, has killed (last I saw) 74,000 in 2 years.

So, where is the genocide? Is 2.9% over 2 years, when Israel is capable of killing 74k in a matter of hours if they wanted to, considered genocide in your mind?
 
Is this @ZenMode a fucking illiterate? There are at least 5 international organizations calling this genocide. Two in Israel itself. The 5 elements of genocide are easy to look up. Clearly, Israel has consistently violated four of those.

It’s fucking genocide, folks. You can’t stick your head in the sand and pretend it’s not.
 
Is this @ZenMode a fucking illiterate? There are at least 5 international organizations calling this genocide. Two in Israel itself. The 5 elements of genocide are easy to look up. Clearly, Israel has consistently violated four of those.

It’s fucking genocide, folks. You can’t stick your head in the sand and pretend it’s not.
Yet they don't condemn "From the River to the Sea" as genocidal. Why?

a6z4pb.jpg
 
Is this @ZenMode a fucking illiterate? There are at least 5 international organizations calling this genocide. Two in Israel itself. The 5 elements of genocide are easy to look up. Clearly, Israel has consistently violated four of those.

It’s fucking genocide, folks. You can’t stick your head in the sand and pretend it’s not.
Just saying things doesn't make it true.

Per the UN, the actions below are considered genocide IF there is INTENT to DESTROY a group. In other words, simply killing members of a group, for example, doesn't automatically make it genocide. There has to be INTENT to destroy the group.

Definition
Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide
Article II

In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:


  • Killing members of the group;
  • Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
  • Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
  • Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
  • Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

So, what evidence is there that Israel is INTENDING to destroy all Gazans?
 
Just saying things doesn't make it true.

Per the UN, the actions below are considered genocide IF there is INTENT to DESTROY a group. In other words, simply killing members of a group, for example, doesn't automatically make it genocide. There has to be INTENT to destroy the group.

Definition
Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide
Article II

In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:


  • Killing members of the group;
  • Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
  • Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
  • Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
  • Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

So, what evidence is there that Israel is INTENDING to destroy all Gazans?
Five international organizations say it is genocide. The only one that may not apply is #5. Clearly, the others do.

“destroy, in whole or in part,”

Comprehension, dude. Comprehension.

Intent? All that bombing was accidental?
 
Five international organizations say it is genocide. The only one that may not apply is #5. Clearly, the others do.

“destroy, in whole or in part,”

Comprehension, dude. Comprehension.

Intent? All that bombing was accidental?
By that logic, every war is genocide.

Clearly every war is not genocide.

It's also clear that Israel is not INTENDING to destroy all Gazans. In fact, they've gone out of their way to warn civilians and to minimize civilian deaths. That is precisely why, after two years, they've only killed 2.9% (74k) of the civilian population. If they actually want to commit genocide, they could kill 74k civilians in a day... probably in a matter of hours.
 
By that logic, every war is genocide.

Clearly every war is not genocide.

It's also clear that Israel is not INTENDING to destroy all Gazans. In fact, they've gone out of their way to warn civilians and to minimize civilian deaths. That is precisely why, after two years, they've only killed 2.9% of the civilian population. If they actually want to commit genocide, they could kill 74k civilians in a day... probably in a matter of hours.
What part of “in part” evaded you?
 
What part of “in part” evaded you?
Do you think every war that involves civilian death is genocide? Every war results in civilian deaths, right, so they must all be genocide.

The Iraq war resulted in 200k civilians deaths. Was the US committing genocide?
 
Do you think every war that involves civilian death is genocide? Every war results in civilian deaths, right, so they must all be genocide.

The Iraq war resulted in 200k civilians deaths. Was the US committing genocide?
Nope, I sure as shit don’t. And either do the organizations that I cited. What they DID agree on is that Israel has committed not just war crimes, but genocide.

Now, you can whine about their findings all you want, but I doubt they will change them just for you.
 
Nope, I sure as shit don’t.
Well, that's good, I guess.
And either do the organizations that I cited. What they DID agree on is that Israel has committed not just war crimes, but genocide.
Right. Lots of people/groups say lots of things.
Now, you can whine about their findings all you want, but I doubt they will change them just for you.

I'm not the one whining.

The details of the Israel/Gaza war don't reflect an attempted genocide. It actually shows the opposite. Gaza has about 15,000 people per square mile. If Israel wanted to kill 74,000, it could be done in minutes. They are clearly trying to avoid civilian deaths.
 
Well, that's good, I guess.

Right. Lots of people/groups say lots of things.


I'm not the one whining.

The details of the Israel/Gaza war don't reflect an attempted genocide. It actually shows the opposite. Gaza has about 15,000 people per square mile. If Israel wanted to kill 74,000, it could be done in minutes. They are clearly trying to avoid civilian deaths.
Right. Lots of groups.

Amnesty International
International Association of Genocide Scholars
Physicians For Human Rights-Israel
B’Teselem (Israeli Information Center for Human Rights)
UN Office of the High Commission for Human Rights

I can probably find more if you’d like.

But, go ahead, look up their websites or addresses and send them your sentiments. Provide all those numbers you keep spewing. I’m sure they’ll give your input all the consideration it deserves.
 
Right, so what is your evidence for genocide?
Wrong question. The correct question is "What is the world's evidence for genocide?" This is not a question you ask me; this is a question you research yourself ... and you notice that you feel compelled to not perform any research at all, and to just say "I haven't seen any evidence whatsoever."

... and that's where this discussion ends.

Any individual war crimes that may have happened are not automatically genocide.
Every single war crime as defined by the IV Geneva Convention, absolutely is a war crime, punishable under the IV Geneva Convention.

On October 7, 2021, ...
Ignored. The Israeli genocide of Gazan Arabs began after that date. You need to remain within the time zone of discussion.

Hamas fighters killed
Ooooh, nope. There were no Hamas involved there. You are thoroughly confused.

Israel, an actual military,
Too funny! Israel is a country, not an army. You never went to school, did you.

When you eventually get around to mentioning the IDF, they are the world's most active terrorist organization. They have perpetrated the 2nd Nakba. Evil, RACIST, militant, terrorists. Every last one of them. They've killed about 96,000 Arabs in 2 years, all civilian noncombatants that they were obligated to actively protect
 
Wrong question. The correct question is "What is the world's evidence for genocide?" This is not a question you ask me; this is a question you research yourself ... and you notice that you feel compelled to not perform any research at all, and to just say "I haven't seen any evidence whatsoever."

... and that's where this discussion ends.
Right, so you can't support your claim of genocide. You're just going along with what others tell you.

Got it.
Every single war crime as defined by the IV Geneva Convention, absolutely is a war crime, punishable under the IV Geneva Convention.
Yes, but we are talking about genocide, so.....
Ignored. The Israeli genocide of Gazan Arabs began afterthat date. You need to remain within the time zone of discussion.
Ooooh, nope. There were no Hamas involved there. You are thoroughly confused.

Too funny! Israel is a country, not an army. You never went to school, did you.

When you eventually get around to mentioning the IDF, they are the world's most active terrorist organization. They have perpetrated the 2nd Nakba. Evil, RACIST, militant, terrorists. Every last one of them. They've killed about 96,000 Arabs in 2 years, all civilian noncombatants that they were obligated to actively protect
Ok, I'll reword what I said, and correct the date error, so that you can actually address it:

On October 7, 2023, fighters that were located in Gaza killed about 1,000 Israeli civilians in 8 hours, using nothing but handheld guns and knives. If they maintained that rate of murder, that would be 3,000 per day and would total just over 2 million in 2 years since the war started.

Israel, a country with an actual military and actual military weapons, has killed (according to al Jazerra) 70,000 in 2 years.

So, where is the genocide? Is 2.9% over 2 years, when Israel is capable of killing 70k, and much, much more, in a matter of hours if they wanted to, considered genocide in your mind?
 
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