the ATF has some 'splaining' to do

King of Proles said:
This is awesome. With any luck they won't release their shotgun study. With ASTRONOMICAL luck there won't be an ATF.
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budget cuts for ATF can be expected because of this, but the potential downside to that is most of the ATFers people and money being switched over to the FBI and DOJ, which we most certainly don't need.
 
Taichiliberal said:
Thank you.

Now, you stated, ".... Obama has made statements in the last few days about having a new gun policy forum where he's going to try to sidestep congress on eliminating private firearms transactions.."

I've high-lighted those four words of yours because while the article you linked does show Obama and company trying to formulate paths around a currently GOP controlled Congress and the powerful NRA lobby, NO WHERE does the article state what YOU, STY, have asserted here. If you can find the actual quote, please produce it as I've might have missed it....but I read the article and it's sub-linked article TWICE, and did not find your quote.

Perhaps you were referring to this article:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/24/chuck-schumer-michael-bloomberg-gun-checks_n_827497.html

But again, nowhere does this article contain a reported proposal that would do as you assert. The problem you and other gunners have, STY, is that you perceive ANY legislation regarding weapons ownership and transaction as a direct violation of the 2nd Amendment and an precursor to outright banning/confiscation of private ownership of guns.

Again, Nowhere in either article is there a call for "eliminating private firearms transactions".....that is YOUR personal perception, which is actually a distortion of the propsals given. In effect, STY, YOU are falsely representing what others are saying.

Well, you wanted to pick a fight here, and now you've got one. Like I said before, I have NO PROBLEM letting the ATF get it's just desserts should and investigation prove them liable for the Mexican gun run fiasco, and I have NO PROBLEM with laying blame on the Obama administration if they try to soft soap this. I do, however, have a problem when gunners essentially distort, misrepresent, exaggerated and lie about gun laws and gun law proposals.
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The link he gave you the first time was adequate to prove his accusation... perhaps its you reading ability that needs a tuneup....
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_836138.html
 
Essentially, what we have here is a monumental screw-up by the ATF to try and run a CIA-esque sting operation in Mexico. They failed with tragic results. But like the FBI with the Oklahoma bombings, everyone is going to try and cover their ass.

Does this give credence to the rabid gunner lies that Obama is coming to take their guns away? Nope, but it's a big negative against the Obama administration if his people don't get on the stick and roll some heads ASAP.
 
King of Proles said:
While this doesn't reflect any direction the president may have towards firearms ownership, all his past actions certainly do.
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Luckily, your electoral system ensures that Obama, and his views on gun control, will never have any impact on any actual guns.
 
charver said:
Luckily, your electoral system ensures that Obama, and his views on gun control, will never have any impact on any actual guns.
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Thus far you are correct. His appointees however, especially the two USSC justices, may tell a different story. Only time will tell. Regardless that does not imply that gun owners should tread the political waters any lighter. Eternal watch and all that.
 
King of Proles said:
Thus far you are correct. His appointees however, especially the two USSC justices, may tell a different story. Only time will tell. Regardless that does not imply that gun owners should tread the political waters any lighter. Eternal watch and all that.
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But with every year being an election somewhere in the US and (at a guess) at least half the population on either side of the debate (to some extent) then gun control legislation to a draconian extent is never going to be a 'vote winner' is it?
 
charver said:
But with every year being an election somewhere in the US and (at a guess) at least half the population on either side of the debate (to some extent) then gun control legislation to a draconian extent is never going to be a 'vote winner' is it?
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Nowadays yes. Wasn't always like that. And still isn't in certain areas. And then there is the on going fight to reverse many of the unjust laws on the books.
 
Yurt said:
so now, its just some left over executive power, that both dems and repubs use to enforce their will? how did they end up under the treasury department?
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Both fall under treasury because SS investigates currency matters (forgery, fraud, etc.) and the ATF is supposed to collect special taxes.
 
Things just got a little more exciting.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_162-20053961-10391695.html

Damning, newly-obtained emails show that a key gun shop owner made explicit concerns in writing last year in the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms' "gunwalking" scandal.

Starting in late 2009, ATF allegedly directed an undetermined number of Phoenix-area gun shop owners to go ahead with sales of thousands of assault rifles and other weapons to suspicious buyers. Insiders claim ATF knew the buyers were connected to Mexico's drug cartels, but let the guns "walk" onto the street anyway in a misguided attempt to obtain intelligence. ATF and the Justice Department have denied that.

Investigators from Sen. Charles Grassley (R-Iowa) obtained the emails this week.

In an April 13, 2010 email, the unnamed gun shop owner told ATF he was worried how he'd be viewed if the guns he sold ended up in the wrong hands.

"We just want to make sure we are cooperating with ATF and that we are not viewed as selling to bad guys," the gun shop owner wrote to ATF Phoenix Supervisor David Voth. The gun shop owner asked for a letter of understanding to "alleviate concerns of some type of recourse against us down the road for selling these items."

ATF Supervisor Voth tried to reassure the cooperating gun shop owner. "I understand that the frequency with which some individuals under investigation by our office have been purchasing firearms from your business has caused concerns for you... However, if helps put you at east we (ATF) are continually monitoring these suspects using a variety of investigative techniques which I cannot go into [in] detail."

According to Sen. Grassley, in a letter fired off to Attorney General Eric Holder last night, the ATF arranged a meeting between the gun shop owner and the U.S. Attorney's office which is part of the Justice Department. At that meeting, Sen. Grassley says the U.S. Attorney's office declined to provide written terms but assured the gun dealer there were safeguards in place to prevent further distribution of the weapons being purchased from his business.

"As we now know, those assurances provide to be untrue," Grassley wrote.
 
Rep. Issa threatens acting director Melson with contempt for refusal to turn over documents.

In a letter to Melson:
“The Department’s internal policy to withhold documents from what it labels pending criminal investigations may not deprive Congress from obtaining those same documents if they are pertinent to a congressional investigation – particularly in a matter involving allegations that reckless and inappropriate decisions by top Justice Department officials may have contributed to the deaths of both U.S. and Mexican citizens,” Chairman Issa wrote in citing Supreme Court precedents and previous Congressional investigations. “Let me be clear … we are not conducting a concurrent investigation with the Department of Justice, but rather an independent investigation of the Department of Justice – specifically, of allegations that the reckless and inappropriate decisions of Department officials have created a serious public safety hazard. We are asking for documents that relate to decisions such officials made. Congress is legally entitled to all of these documents.”
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Yurt said:
i agree with you on the cover up, whoever is involved in the cover up should be criminally charged if such cover up violates any laws.

why do you think the ATF is a rogue organization? given that no president has dismantled this organization. further, congress continues to fund them with over a billion dollars a year.....
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Of course, everyone knows presidents always root out all corruption within the government and are never part of it. Presidents are awesome. Authority figures are worthy of our trust. How could they even get to that level without being good people? :rolleyes:
 
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