22 dead so far at VA Tech shooting

IHateGovernment said:
While I am absolutely all for better mental healthcare, and access to it provided by the government, I wonder if it would cut down on this particular kind of thing. Sometimes I think that the people who need this kind of help the most, are the least likely to seek it out. And how do we, as a society, pick them out before something like this occurs?

If they've never committed an offense before we can't. I don't know about this case but in many cases the mentally ill have prior incidents of criminal behavior that could be ameliorated by medication. In some cases a court ordered medication would be appropriate.

Would it solve everything no but it would be a start.
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True.
 
Thats one of the good things about violence against animals being illegal is that you can detect the homicidal this way. They often start with animals.
 
IHateGovernment said:
Thats one of the good things about violence against animals being illegal is that you can detect the homicidal this way. They often start with animals.
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I was actually thinking that. But then talked myself out of it since I eat & love meat.
 
IHateGovernment said:
While I am absolutely all for better mental healthcare, and access to it provided by the government, I wonder if it would cut down on this particular kind of thing. Sometimes I think that the people who need this kind of help the most, are the least likely to seek it out. And how do we, as a society, pick them out before something like this occurs?

If they've never committed an offense before we can't. I don't know about this case but in many cases the mentally ill have prior incidents of criminal behavior that could be ameliorated by medication. In some cases a court ordered medication would be appropriate.

Would it solve everything no but it would be a start.
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Unfortunately, the type of meds that you're talking about are those with the greatest rate of non-compliance among patients. In nearly all cases, the only people who really suffer from this are the patients themselves and their families. The worst problem here is that very, very few schizophrenics are violent at all. If a patient stops taking meds, it takes quite a while (weeks) before symptoms start to reappear.

We don't have the facilities to hospitalize all psychiatric patients, nor should we; most are not dangerous. The problem with situations such as this one is that nearly always the person responsible showed no clear indications that such actions might take place.
 
IHateGovernment said:
While I am absolutely all for better mental healthcare, and access to it provided by the government, I wonder if it would cut down on this particular kind of thing. Sometimes I think that the people who need this kind of help the most, are the least likely to seek it out. And how do we, as a society, pick them out before something like this occurs?

If they've never committed an offense before we can't. I don't know about this case but in many cases the mentally ill have prior incidents of criminal behavior that could be ameliorated by medication. In some cases a court ordered medication would be appropriate.

Would it solve everything no but it would be a start.
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Mental patients are not restricted from purchasing guns if they do not have a felony record.....
 
NRA Quote:
"They will pry my gun from my gun from my dead hands, I have the right to protect myself from dangerous Faeries."
 
I was actually thinking that. But then talked myself out of it since I eat & love meat.

Yeah but when most people eat meat it is some disembodies lump of matter which to us is just tasty. Even people who go fishing or hunting don't necessarily take a homicidal like joy out of extinguishing life. I'm talking about those sickos who torture animals for their amusement.
 
Unfortunately, the type of meds that you're talking about are those with the greatest rate of non-compliance among patients. In nearly all cases, the only people who really suffer from this are the patients themselves and their families. The worst problem here is that very, very few schizophrenics are violent at all. If a patient stops taking meds, it takes quite a while (weeks) before symptoms start to reappear.

We don't have the facilities to hospitalize all psychiatric patients, nor should we; most are not dangerous. The problem with situations such as this one is that nearly always the person responsible showed no clear indications that such actions might take place.

I'm talking about people who have been involved with criminal behavior in the past which was caused by mental health issues though. Once that has occurred it can be considered a term of their release to submit to reporting for administration of medication.
 
IHateGovernment said:
I was actually thinking that. But then talked myself out of it since I eat & love meat.

Yeah but when most people eat meat it is some disembodies lump of matter which to us is just tasty. Even people who go fishing or hunting don't necessarily take a homicidal like joy out of extinguishing life. I'm talking about those sickos who torture animals for their amusement.
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true.
 
Nope just conjecture. Although I'd think you'd almost have to be. Although what constitutes mentally ill is anyone's guess. Was the beltway sniper mentally ill? I'm not a psychologist.
 
IHateGovernment said:
That is really scary!

Not entirely though. Should a person who suffers from depression not have the right to own a gun?
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I know a hard call but surely a person that has been "Baker Acted" for their or someones elses safety should not own or posess a firearm.

Sadly this might be one outcome of the VA Tech Shooting incident...
 
On the depression angle, many are deprerssed for valid teasons and are not mentally ill or suicidal.

Just because you are depressed does not mean you are mentally ill.
Well it does to the Pharma companies pushing pills I suppose.
 
IHateGovernment said:
I'm talking about people who have been involved with criminal behavior in the past which was caused by mental health issues though. Once that has occurred it can be considered a term of their release to submit to reporting for administration of medication.
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OK, sorry I misunderstood your meaning. If the person avoided conviction by using the NGRI defense, s/he may be incarcerated indefinitely, depending on the state of mental health determined by regular psychiatric evaluation at predetermined intervals and formal reviews. I'm not sure what the conditions are in this country for post-release monitoring, though we had a couple in our facility for a while. (That's how I put myself through school; it cured me forever of the delusion of wanting to be a shrink!) Although some depot injections are now available for antipsychotic meds I've seen no data as to their effectiveness, side effects, etc. Most patients still rely on daily oral meds. Trying to oversee that in a population of patients who are living independently would be a nightmare. Most oral (antipsychotic) meds are taken at least once, sometimes twice a day! We also had to check patients' mouths to be sure the pill had been swallowed and was not hidden in the mouth somewhere.
 
uscitizen said:
On the depression angle, many are deprerssed for valid teasons and are not mentally ill or suicidal.

Just because you are depressed does not mean you are mentally ill.
Well it does to the Pharma companies pushing pills I suppose.
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There are distinct categories of depression. Those who are suffering because of a traumatic event in their lives (reactive depression) may require some help to recover but it's unlikely that there will be a relapse.

The other type, "endogenous depression", is primarily genetic and patients generally will require some sort of pharmacological intervention, at least at intervals, throughout their lives, to overcome those symptoms. Among those patients may be a subclassification of psychotic depressives, who may suffer delusions and bizarre behaviors. The thing is, as you pointed out earlier, by far the majority of psychiatric patients are not dangerous at all.

We know nothing about the shooter(s) in this incident. It may very well be that even if there was an involvement of mental illness (not by any means a certainty), it was undetected until now. Perhaps people looking back might now recall some oddities in his behavior, perhaps not, but it's very possible that there were no indications prior to today that such a thing might happen.
 
Thorn said:
OK, sorry I misunderstood your meaning. If the person avoided conviction by using the NGRI defense, s/he may be incarcerated indefinitely, depending on the state of mental health determined by regular psychiatric evaluation at predetermined intervals and formal reviews. I'm not sure what the conditions are in this country for post-release monitoring, though we had a couple in our facility for a while. (That's how I put myself through school; it cured me forever of the delusion of wanting to be a shrink!) Although some depot injections are now available for antipsychotic meds I've seen no data as to their effectiveness, side effects, etc. Most patients still rely on daily oral meds. Trying to oversee that in a population of patients who are living independently would be a nightmare. Most oral (antipsychotic) meds are taken at least once, sometimes twice a day! We also had to check patients' mouths to be sure the pill had been swallowed and was not hidden in the mouth somewhere.
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Based on my personal experience with a looney (scientific term for nutz) sister in law, most loonies have a family member that would not mind shooting them in the butt with a tranqulizer gun.
 
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