2nd Amendment Conversation from the Defund thread

[Into the Night]

Subject only to the police power, the right of the individual citizen to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. (Illinois State Constitution)

An example of a State's sovereign right, secured by our Second Amendment.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Not an example, a prohibition. The federal government has no authority to pass any law that infringes upon a State's right defend itself (which uses an organized militia). States are also prohibited from attempting any State from forming militias to protect themselves.
Similarly, the federal government is prohibited from infringing on an individual's right to protect themselves. They also have the right to keep and bear Arms (weapons) to do so.

ANY KIND OF WEAPON.

The police have no authority to infringe on an individual's right to keep and bear Arms in Illinois, due to the 2nd amendment of the United States.

 

[Truck Fump / h1b]

Only well regulated militia of the United States have literal recourse to our Second Amendment when keeping and bearing Arms for their State or the Union.

ftfy.

 

[danielpalos]

Not an example, a prohibition. The federal government has no authority to pass any law that infringes upon a State's right defend itself (which uses an organized militia). States are also prohibited from attempting any State from forming militias to protect themselves.
Similarly, the federal government is prohibited from infringing on an individual's right to protect themselves. They also have the right to keep and bear Arms (weapons) to do so.

ANY KIND OF WEAPON.

The police have no authority to infringe on an individual's right to keep and bear Arms in Illinois, due to the 2nd amendment of the United States.

Where do you get your propaganda from?

This is what we are discussing: Subject only to the police power, the right of the individual citizen to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

 

[danielpalos]

ftfy.

The unorganized militia does not have literal recourse to our Second Amendment as Individuals of the People.

Subject only to the police power, the right of the individual citizen to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. (Illinois State Constitution)

 

[Truck Fump / h1b]

The unorganized militia does not have literal recourse to our Second Amendment as Individuals of the People.

Subject only to the police power, the right of the individual citizen to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. (Illinois State Constitution)

the rights of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed, regardless of the first part.

 

[danielpalos]

the rights of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed, regardless of the first part.

They can't. Only well regulated militia of the people have literal recourse to our Second Amendment.

 

[Truck Fump / h1b]

They can't. Only well regulated militia of the people have literal recourse to our Second Amendment.

false

 

[danielpalos]

false

So? Your unsubstantiated opinion means nothing. Not bright enough on the right-wing to even argue?

Vote Blue not Red!

 

[Truck Fump / h1b]

So? Your unsubstantiated opinion means nothing. Not bright enough on the right-wing to even argue?

Vote Blue not Red!

the militia meant the regular people.

there was no standing army.

just because there is one now doesn't mean citizens lose this right.

 

[danielpalos]

the militia meant the regular people.

there was no standing army.

just because there is one now doesn't mean citizens lose this right.

Why should I ever believe any right-winger regardless of circumstances; when our Second Amendment is clear?

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

That excludes the unorganized militia.

Subject only to the police power, the right of the individual citizen to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. (Illinois State Constitution)

Vote Blue not Red!

 

[Truck Fump / h1b]

Why should I ever believe any right-winger regardless of circumstances; when our Second Amendment is clear?

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

That excludes the unorganized militia.

Subject only to the police power, the right of the individual citizen to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. (Illinois State Constitution)

Vote Blue not Red!

it says "people". not militia members.

 

[danielpalos]

it says "people". not militia members.

Only right-wingers appeal to ignorance instead of reason.

Vote Blue not Red!

I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials."— George Mason, in Debates in Virginia Convention on
Ratification of the Constitution, Elliot, Vol. 3, June 16, 1788

 

[Nordberg]

I think Tv stations should show the bodies of the victims of shootings. We make it antiseptic, more like TV or movie violence. People should see what it looks like. They would be disgusted. But it would be realism.

 

[Geeko Sportivo]

the rights of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed, regardless of the first part.

Can you define Arms?

What arms were available at the time the 2nd amendment was written?

Nuclear Weapons are arms, aren't they?

So, based on the 2nd Amendment wording, do you think people should have the right to keep and bear nuclear weapons?

 

[Truck Fump / h1b]

Can you define Arms?

What arms were available at the time the 2nd amendment was written?

Nuclear Weapons are arms, aren't they?

So, based on the 2nd Amendment wording, do you think people should have the right to keep and bear nuclear weapons?

yes.

 

[Geeko Sportivo]

yes.

Really? Enlighten us! How would you personally use Nuclear Weapons if you could own them and use them?

Would you use them to slay a deer perhaps?

 

[Into the Night]

Where do you get your propaganda from?

This is what we are discussing: Subject only to the police power, the right of the individual citizen to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

The Constitution of the United States.

 

[Into the Night]

The unorganized militia does not have literal recourse to our Second Amendment as Individuals of the People.

Subject only to the police power, the right of the individual citizen to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. (Illinois State Constitution)

There is no such thing as an 'unorganized militia' (save for soldiers so poorly trained you couldn't call them a functioning unit!).

 

[Into the Night]

They can't. Only well regulated militia of the people have literal recourse to our Second Amendment.

No such restriction.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

The 2nd amendment discusses two related rights:
* The right of a State to defend itself. It does this by organizing a militia. It is expected to train them, to arm them, and in all other respects support the purpose for which they were raised. This is what 'well regulated' means.
* The right of the people to defend themselves. They do this by keeping and bearing Arms. They are not the militia. They are not soldiers. They are citizens of the State defending themselves, their homes, their businesses, their property, their loved ones, their communities, and their State.

No State can infringe upon these rights. They are inherent.
The federal government cannot infringe on these rights. They are inherent.

Government is prohibited from interfering with these rights.

 

[Into the Night]

the militia meant the regular people.

there was no standing army.

No. The word 'militia' is Latin in origin. It has always meant 'of the military' or 'soldier'. It has never meant citizens.
States cannot have a standing army. They can raise an army, however, to defend that State. For clarification of the circumstances for when a State can raise an army and how long they can be used for can be found in Article I, $10 of the Constitution of the United States.

just because there is one now doesn't mean citizens lose this right.

This is quite right. People have the inherent right to defend themselves. They do not need to be a member of a militia to do it.