A brief history of Hell

[Cypress]

Jesus is God. Are you saying Jesus/God changed his mind about what is/isn't moral? Passover would seem perfectly moral to imperfect, iron age men who also thought it ok to kill their children to appease their gods. If we know that is wrong today, it would be literally impossible for God to not know something immoral now wasn't immoral then. He's God. He could have just "moved" them as he pleased or done any number of completely moral things to accomplish the same goal. Or he could have known, as an all-knowing being would, that his people were going to be enslaved and stopped it before it happened.
Many religions have evolved as religious behavior become untenable by MAN'S standards.

The Old Testament really seems to upset you. You should approach a Jewish neighbor or Jewish co-worker to complain about the Old Testament, since Hebrews are the ones who wrote it.

For the most part, I think you should either read the Talmud or consult with Jewish scholars about the interpretations of Exodus.

What I am saying is that, from the Abrahamic religious perspective, our human understanding of God changes through ongoing revelation. God did not write a single word in the bible. God did not even hand the bible to anyone from on high.

The bible is a series of books, letters, poems, revelations that humans wrote, and out of all the religious literature ever written out there, humans decided which would be canonical and which ones wouldn't.

So that means our understanding of God strictly comes from humans, and that understanding has constantly evolved through ongoing revelation, from the Torah, to the Na'vim of the prophets, to the NT gospels, to the writings of the Church fathers, to modern ecumenical councils and papal bulls.

 

[ZenMode]

You can talk about Santa Claus too, but if you ran around blaming Santa Claus for giving coal to certain kids, it'd be evidence you believe in Santa Claus.

The Bible, as a book written by men, exists a real book and it makes real claims that can be discussed. I could talk about the happenings in The Iliad and The Odyssey in the same manner.

 

[Cypress]

You discuss the metaphysical eternity hell from hope, faith charity promising better tomorrows each rotation of the planet, but I dare you to describe the physical one that has existed since the dawn of civilization?

Take your lithium.

 

[Yakuda]

So you believe atheists, agnostics, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, and Buddhist do not face eternal damnation and punishment for not conforming to Christian beliefs. I don't think that is an opinion shared by the vast majority of your rightwing Christian allies.

First I have no "rightwing Christian allies". Next, what I believe is what the bible teaches Matt 20:1-16 and Matt 7:21. How many times do I have to explain this to you? Protestants believe things not in the bible and ignore things that are in the Bible. So stop telling what heretics think. I don't give a shit. This is why I say most people can't get past a 3rd grade understanding

 

[ZenMode]

The Old Testament really seems to upset you. You should approach a Jewish neighbor or Jewish co-worker to complain about the Old Testament, since Hebrews are the ones who wrote it.

For the most part, I think you should either read the Talmud or consult with Jewish scholars about the interpretations of Exodus.

What I am saying is that, from the Abrahamic religious perspective, our human understanding of God changes through ongoing revelation. God did not write a single word in the bible. God did not even hand the bible to anyone from on high.

The bible is a series of books, letters, poems, revelations that humans wrote, and out of all the religious literature ever written out there, humans decided which would be canonical and which ones wouldn't.

So that means our understanding of God strictly comes from humans, and that understanding has constantly evolved through ongoing revelation, from the Torah, to the Na'vim of the prophets, to the NT gospels, to the writings of the Church fathers, to modern ecumenical councils and papal bulls.

Unless you're going to say that the homicidal stories in the Bible are simply made up, there's no reason to believe that the Christian God is not a homicidal maniac.

 

[serenity]

Take your lithium.

I am instinctively accurate about evolving process where genetics eternally separates active reproductions occupying time now. Not some people pretending life exceeds the moment here as typecast by those denying how they arrived naturally here.

Choosing a faith to believe now isn't eternity keeps generation gaps reliving the first decision to ignore now is eternity.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

The Bible, as a book written by men, exists a real book and it makes real claims that can be discussed. I could talk about the happenings in The Iliad and The Odyssey in the same manner.

Correct on both, but the difference is that you claim to believe all are fiction.

It's one thing to discuss a book of fiction, but it's another to act as if it's real as noted Santa Clause post. Your complaints about God indicate you both believe and are angry at God. There could be many reasons for this militant view of a believer. One that I've seen in the US are middle-aged or older gays who were disowned by their Christian parents.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Unless you're going to say that the homicidal stories in the Bible are simply made up, there's no reason to believe that the Christian God is not a homicidal maniac.

QED on both your belief and anger at the "Christian God".

Obviously the difference between God of the OT and God of the NT are as different as night and day. What you keep overlooking, presumably due to your anger, is that God's nature is one thing and mankind's perception of God is another.

What you refuse to acknowledge is that the difference between the OT and the NT is the perceptions of the writers, not the nature of God. Since you are not a dumbass like many of those on JPP, your reaction appears to be emotionally-based, not intellectually-based. This is why I think you've had some traumatizing experience in your youth that is causing a visceral reaction versus a rational reaction. A common one in regards to religion is being disowned by one's parents for being gay.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

First I have no "rightwing Christian allies". Next, what I believe is what the bible teaches Matt 20:1-16 and Matt 7:21. How many times do I have to explain this to you? Protestants believe things not in the bible and ignore things that are in the Bible. So stop telling what heretics think. I don't give a shit. This is why I say most people can't get past a 3rd grade understanding

Are you claiming to be a Christian or not, Yak? If you are a Christian, which denomination do you support?

 

[ZenMode]

Correct on both, but the difference is that you claim to believe all are fiction.

It's one thing to discuss a book of fiction, but it's another to act as if it's real as noted Santa Clause post. Your complaints about God indicate you both believe and are angry at God. There could be many reasons for this militant view of a believer. One that I've seen in the US are middle-aged or older gays who were disowned by their Christian parents.

My complaints indicate that I live in country where about 70% of the people actually believe in Santa Clause.

 

[Cypress]

Unless you're going to say that the homicidal stories in the Bible are simply made up,
there's no reason to believe that the Christian God is not a homicidal maniac

So you agree that God did not write the Bible, and the Bible contains literature and stories of how humans of the time viewed God. I have heard that story-telling is a long standing and deep tradition in Jewish history and culture

As for your homicidal maniac statements, I get it: militant atheists like to troll Christians, Rightwing Christians like to troll Muslims, and hardcore Islamists like to troll Jews, in the most incendiary ways possible.

As for me, I am interested in the scholarship and history of religions.

 

[BidenPresident]

So you agree that God did not write the Bible, and the Bible contains literature and stories of how humans of the time viewed God. I have heard that story-telling is a long standing and deep tradition in Jewish history and culture

As for your homicidal maniac statements, I get it: militant atheists like to troll Christians, Rightwing Christians like to troll Muslims, and hardcore Islamists like to troll Jews, in the most incendiary ways possible.

As for me, I am interested in the scholarship and history of religions.

We know, you like religion.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

My complaints indicate that I live in country where about 70% of the people actually believe in Santa Clause.

I'm not talking about uneducated dumbasses, 'Mode. I'm talking about you. Are you seriously complaining that you believe in Santa Claus because others do? Is that why you also believe in God despite your claims of being an atheist?

What was it in your life that caused you to hate God so much? Was it for making you deformed? Crippled? Gay? Born into poverty with dumbassed Christian parents?

 

[Cypress]

First I have no "rightwing Christian allies". Next, what I believe is what the bible teaches Matt 20:1-16 and Matt 7:21. How many times do I have to explain this to you? Protestants believe things not in the bible and ignore things that are in the Bible. So stop telling what heretics think. I don't give a shit. This is why I say most people can't get past a 3rd grade understanding

Well I guess you have a novel view of hell, because both militant atheists and fire and brimstone holy rollers want us to believe that hell is a real place of diabolical tortures every non-christian is ultimately damned to.

Although I believe militant atheists and fundamentalist holy rollers have different motivations for promoting a diabolical and terrifying story about hell.

 

[Cypress]

Correct on both, but the difference is that you claim to believe all are fiction.

It's one thing to discuss a book of fiction, but it's another to act as if it's real as noted Santa Clause post. Your complaints about God indicate you both believe and are angry at God. There could be many reasons for this militant view of a believer. One that I've seen in the US are middle-aged or older gays who were disowned by their Christian parents.

Einstein famously said that the professional atheist with an axe to grind is usually someone who was traumatized by religious indoctrination in their youth.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Einstein famously said that the professional atheist with an axe to grind is usually someone who was traumatized by religious indoctrination in their youth.

I agree with that assessment. People who are traumatized often either fold or overcompensate in fighting back.

This is similar to the common observation that the worst anti-smokers are ex-smokers. LOL

 

[Yakuda]

Well I guess you have a novel view of hell, because both militant atheists and fire and brimstone holy rollers want us to believe that hell is a real place of diabolical tortures every non-christian is ultimately damned to.

Although I believe militant atheists and fundamentalist holy rollers have different motivations for promoting a diabolical and terrifying story about hell.

No I have a biblical view of hell and who will be saved. You either can't or won't accept that. Is there something wrong with you? If you insist on talking about what heretics believe rather than what the Bible tells us then we have nothing more to say to one another. It's tiring talking to third graders.

Tell you what? Why dont you try reading the passages I posted then maybe spend some time reflecting on them like an adult and see if they teach you anything then get back to me. Until then please stop repeating the same stupid shit.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

No I have a biblical view of hell and who will be saved. You either can't or won't accept that. Is there something wrong with you? If you insist on talking about what heretics believe rather than what the Bible tells us then we have nothing more to say to one another. It's tiring talking to third graders.

Tell you what? Why dont you try reading the passages I posted then maybe spend some time reflecting on them like an adult and see if they teach you anything then get back to me. Until then please stop repeating the same stupid shit.

If you believe you'll be saved, you're mistaken, Yak. You're on a path to Hell with your hatred, bigotry and abuse of your fellow man.

 

[ZenMode]

I'm not talking about uneducated dumbasses, 'Mode. I'm talking about you. Are you seriously complaining that you believe in Santa Claus because others do? Is that why you also believe in God despite your claims of being an atheist?

What was it in your life that caused you to hate God so much? Was it for making you deformed? Crippled? Gay? Born into poverty with dumbassed Christian parents?

As I already said, the fact that I can and do discuss the Bible doesn't mean I believe in God any more than discussing discussing The Iliad or The Odyssey means I believe in those gods.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

As I already said, the fact that I can and do discuss the Bible doesn't mean I believe in God any more than discussing discussing The Iliad or The Odyssey means I believe in those gods.

Again, agreed discussing doesn't mean connotate belief. That's not what you are doing when you make statements like these:

Unless you're going to say that the homicidal stories in the Bible are simply made up, there's no reason to believe that the Christian God is not a homicidal maniac.

I don't really think that man is a factor in assessing whether or not God is a homicidal maniac. An all knowing, all powerful being would not submit to the will of the creatures he created. God's actions exist independently of man. That would be like parents submitting to the moral views of children. "Sure, it's okay to punch your sister in the face when she makes you mad." His actions are clearly in line with those of a homicidal maniac. Man did not tell God to drown the world or kill all of the firstborn children. God made that decision on his own and is, by definition, a homicidal maniac.

Your comments indicate belief in a God as written by man.