A discussion on free trade

RStringfield said:
No, it is not. That's nonsense.

Our lifestyle will not decline, so long as we continue to trade. It will decline in relativistic terms. That is the average American's wealth in relation to the average Chinese' or Indian's wealth will not look so great. Eventually, they or some others might pass us. Who gives a crap?

Your children will be better off than you thanks to trade.
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Americans will not be uplifted by the trade the "free marketeers" want. Some will, but most wontt. Foreign nationals are paying american elites to betray their nation.

Your spin changes nothing, liar.

And again, Nobody's saying "eliminate all trade", we're saying "limit trade to partners with similar attitudes toward human rights." Not a biggie. OR is it?
 
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Ricardo was right, Malthus was wrong... end of story. Comparative advantage is mathematically proven and there is no serious argument on the matter.

As I have pointed out many times before, the trade deficit fearmongers can only point to a decline in the trade deficit as the worst possible scenario of trade.
 
RStringfield said:
Ricardo was right, Malthus was wrong... end of story. Comparative advantage is mathematically proven and there is no serious argument on the matter.

As I have pointed out many times before, the trade deficit fearmongers can only point to a decline in the trade deficit as the worst possible scenario of trade.
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You refuse to take other factors into consideration with your zealotry. Everything is not about "efficiency". Your worldview is just a refusal to put business interests in a context of other competing concerns. You're a brainwashed ideologue, not CORRECT.
 
AssHatZombie said:
So if you're against slave or prison labor, you're a lefty? Is that it?
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What you are calling "slave labor" is nothing but a red herring. It's relevance to trade is not significant.

We use this same so called slave labor, i.e., prisoner labor. I am opposed to it, but again it is not relevant to the issue of trade. Just a hyperbolic phantom you use to disguise xenophobia.
 
RStringfield said:
What you are calling "slave labor" is nothing but a red herring. It's relevance to trade is not significant.

We use this same so called slave labor, i.e., prisoner labor. I am opposed to it, but again it is not relevant to the issue of trade. Just a hyperbolic phantom you use to disguise xenophobia.
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It's relevance to trade is hyperrelevant.

And Im a nationalist, not a xenophobe. Oh, and a government that does not operate on nationalist lines, is automatically illegitimate, as it is in obvious abrogation of it's existential charter.
 
RStringfield said:
I don't think you even understand the issue of Chinese currency manipulation. They buy up US dollars to inflate it's value against yuan. What you and the other morons are advocating is that we pressure them to dump US dollars.

As I mentioned before, things would be better if there people were free to buy foreign currency as they desire. Then the market would set a natural exchange rate rather than having government manipulation.

But China IS going to start to sell off their dollar holdings at some point. To continue the policy they have undertaken could well leave them holding a bunch of dollars that have greatly declined in value. It does not benefit them.

Further, indefinitely trading REAL assets for a bunch of pieces of paper is not very bright.
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Every other nation uses a basket of currencies, it's used to diversify holdings. China picked the top, and cheated their way into the big leagues. Also they are buying up T bonds and T bills, last I checked at nearly 1.5 trillion, and certain government officials are hinting at a sell off, further putting the dollar on shaky ground. Yes it's a problem.


We got ourselves in this position by neglecting our ability to produce by trading with nations who manipulate the system, essentially letting them sifen off a considerable amount of what should be ours. We want them to diversify their holdings, that will balance out the field and China will be forced to play on a level playing field, with which we could crush them. Our debt to them is what's driving down the dollar. Fiscal responsibility and responsible trade is what will fix this problem.
 
AssHatZombie said:
You refuse to take other factors into consideration with your zealotry. Everything is not about "efficiency". Your worldview is just a refusal to put business interests in a context of other competing concerns. You're a brainwashed ideologue, not CORRECT.
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Efficiency brought about through trade leads to a higher standard of living for the masses. What other competing concern do you wish to consider? Your phantom slave labor has been addressed and lacks relevance to trade. What other phantoms do you want me to address?
 
RStringfield said:
Efficiency brought about through trade leads to a higher standard of living for the masses.
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Except when you lose your job to outsourcing.
What other competing concern do you wish to consider? Your phantom slave labor has been addressed and lacks relevance to trade. What other phantoms do you want me to address?
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How does a free person compete with a slave laborer. You could explain how that works. Oh wait. You deny slavery and prison labor. How convenient.
 
WRL said:
Every other nation uses a basket of currencies, it's used to diversify holdings. China picked the top, and cheated their way into the big leagues. Also they are buying up T bonds and T bills, last I checked at nearly 1.5 trillion, and certain government officials are hinting at a sell off, further putting the dollar on shaky ground. Yes it's a problem.


We got ourselves in this position by neglecting our ability to produce by trading with nations who manipulate the system, essentially letting them sifen off a considerable amount of what should be ours. We want them to diversify their holdings, that will balance out the field and China will be forced to play on a level playing field, with which we could crush them. Our debt to them is what's driving down the dollar. Fiscal responsibility and responsible trade is what will fix this problem.
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Translation of what is in bold... You want them to sell off US currencies. Otherwise they might sell off US currencies.
 
RStringfield said:
Translation of what is in bold... You want them to sell off US currencies. Otherwise they might sell off US currencies.
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See. the whole thing goes back to fiat currency. Currency created at will by any entity is great tool of power. It's value is only proportional to the violent force which ultimately enforces it's value. Our country created this insidious abstraction of our killing capacity. Now an enemy is gaining power of us through the power of that which we have created over ourselves. This our noose. We can step out at will.

oh great Jubilee!
 
RStringfield said:
Translation of what is in bold... You want them to sell off US currencies. Otherwise they might sell off US currencies.
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fairness, they do that, we can boycott, tariff, point is they have to get on that level playing field for it to ever balance out otherwise the status quo will only get worse. And that's bad for me and my children...
 
WRL said:
fairness, they do that, we can boycott, tariff, point is they have to get on that level playing field for it to ever balance out otherwise the status quo will only get worse. And that's bad for me and my children...
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Stringy only cares about "the masses", not you. You're white and bad.
 
I've debated him for a while, at times he's offensive but he's no dummy, just the reason I can't say no to places like this... I don't like circle jerks where we all sing qumbya and hug, lets face it this country is at a 50 50 divide, the government is in virtual shutdown, the dollar is spiralling, the list goes on, people need to engage one another and be open to perspectives you might not have considered. Plus hostility, negativity instantly turns people off to what you what them to see.
 
AssHatZombie said:
The masses? Let them eat cake.

Who says "the masses"?
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I was going to say all, but it is more virtually all or "the masses." As you point out, some people will be displaced. In the same way, some will also be displaced from efficiency gains through technological innovations. But in the long term we are all better off from these efficiency gains whether they come via trade or technology advancements.
 
AssHatZombie said:
Except when you lose your job to outsourcing.
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So we should seek to protect inefficient jobs?

AssHatZombie said:
How does a free person compete with a slave laborer. You could explain how that works. Oh wait. You deny slavery and prison labor. How convenient.
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I am not denying prison labor. I am arguing it is not a signficant source of their manufacturing output and therefore not relevant to the issue of free trade. You are just using this as a bogeyman.
 
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