A Good Ron Paul article...

Leave it to Liberals...........

and confused conservatives to cast a vote for 'Dennis the Menace'...Kuchi-boy...this is beyond belief! Reminds me of those who supported Dean-Dean..the 'Scream Machine':cof1:
 
I know I've said that Kucinich would be my second choice. I know he has ideological differences, but like Paul he is a principled man and whether or not I disagree with him on an issue, I always know why he believes the way he does.

Blech, Kucinich is as far left as you can vote for. I'd rather vote for any other Dem running than him (if you had a gun to my head of course and I was only allowed to vote Dem).

"Principled man", that just means they are going to stick to their ideas, which is great if you agree with their ideas, but terrible if you don't. There isn't much room for compromise with that kind of people, not that I don't mind that for Ron Paul but geez Warren, Kucinich?
 
Blech, Kucinich is as far left as you can vote for. I'd rather vote for any other Dem running than him (if you had a gun to my head of course and I was only allowed to vote Dem).

"Principled man", that just means they are going to stick to their ideas, which is great if you agree with their ideas, but terrible if you don't. There isn't much room for compromise with that kind of people, not that I don't mind that for Ron Paul but geez Warren, Kucinich?

You have to look at my 3 defining issues for casting my vote to understand.

1) End Iraq War Immediately
2) End Drug War
3) Cut Taxes & Spending

Paul hits all 3 perfectly. Most candidates hit none or give lip service to one. Kucinich hits 2/3. I'm not saying I agree with every position he holds, but I would unquestionably vote Democratic if he were the nominee against Guliani or Thompson; which he won't be.
 
You have to look at my 3 defining issues for casting my vote to understand.

1) End Iraq War Immediately
2) End Drug War
3) Cut Taxes & Spending

Paul hits all 3 perfectly. Most candidates hit none or give lip service to one. Kucinich hits 2/3. I'm not saying I agree with every position he holds, but I would unquestionably vote Democratic if he were the nominee against Guliani or Thompson; which he won't be.

I understand your view, but how likely are issues 1 and 2 to affect you down the road in later life?
How likely are they to affect your children?

I'm a little different than most Libertarian type people in that I ALWAYS try and look at what is the biggest threat to future liberty.
All foreign wars end.
The drug war, though it may seem worse than ever by perception, is actually waning, look at medical marijuana being allowed here and there and even non-medical.
Moreover the lefties that I've seen in power and usually more extreme left talk a lot about ending it, but in practice expand it into the realm of tobacco or they even force people to take drugs with the threat of lockup for people who choose not to use immunizations.

It is in the gradual creep of government taking over responsibilities where the greatest threat to future freedom lies.

"Government does not grow by seizing our freedoms, but by assuming our responsibilities." – Michael Cloud

"let the government increase its contribution to the "Public Assistance" program and we will, at most, grumble about excessive government spending. The effect of Welfarism on freedom will be felt later on—after its beneficiaries have become its victims, after dependence on government has turned into bondage and it is too late to unlock the jail. "
- Barry Goldwater
 
beefy, I'm pretty sure the thesis was made crystal clear in the article and my blurb.

Some people are so fed up with Bushism, that they are seaching for something that is wildly anti-bush.

Other respected posters here have said virtually the exact same thing - that even some on the anti-war left are pondering supporting Ron Paul. I'm pretty sure you've read those comments before.


Which has a lot to do with Iraq, but at some level may have something to do with a natural reaction of some people to crave something that is truly, and radically "anti-bush"

My point must have gone over your head. I'm suggesting that you make up your mind. Either Ron Paul is or is not worth talking about. And either his support is or is not meaningful.
 
My point must have gone over your head. I'm suggesting that you make up your mind. Either Ron Paul is or is not worth talking about. And either his support is or is not meaningful.


Beefy, I don't believe I've ever said we shouldn't talk about ron paul.

I certainly mock his poll numbers and his ideology. In large part, to goad the ronbots into a debate. Its fun!

But, his poll numbers weren't the point of this post, and most people seemed to understand the thesis of the post. :pke::)
 
Once Ron Paul and Kucinich walked into a bar together and the place collapsed because matter and anti-matter cannot exist in the same space.
 
Beefy, I don't believe I've ever said we shouldn't talk about ron paul.

I certainly mock his poll numbers and his ideology. In large part, to goad the ronbots into a debate. Its fun!

But, his poll numbers weren't the point of this post, and most people seemed to understand the thesis of the post. :pke::)
You're full of shit, you made statements about how you would never vote for him because of his "hate" ties. That wasn't goading anyone.
You speak with abject hatred over his policies on capitalism.

You are not goading anyone, you are trying to marginalize Capitalism by associating it with Ron Paul (who is viewed as marginal in his support, something YOU actively promote) while associating it with other marginal detested shit like white supremacists.
You're a deceitful little snake, RStringfield called you out on it too and I seriously doubt anyone thinks that you are being lighthearted, despite your stick-poking images.
Try using this one to end all your posts instead:
:sneak:
 
The article really is a good one. Ron Paul would NEVER have had this kind of support in 2000. Clinton was leaving office with the economy in relatively good shape, there was no Patriot Act and no undeclared war in the Middle East. Bush and the Neocons after 8 years have so alienated the lefty and righty anarchists and anti-war dems that he has put together a group of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" supporters. Couple that with his strong pro-states rights belief and you get the neo-nazis and skinheads in for good measure. Don't get me wrong I don't think all pro states rights voters are skinheads, but america's racist best was at a time when the feds didn't interfere with Jim Crow and segregated schools. Anytime anyone says anything about states rights, the white whiners ears perk up. They long for a day when the "coloreds" will once again know their place. But I digress. I am SOOOO tired of Bush that I too am a Paul Supporter even though he thinks state governments should be allowed to force women to remain pregnant and, most anti-libertarian of all, believes that states should be allowed to regulate marriage contracts. But I am still leary, especially since NO ONE from the Paul campaign seems willing to address the white supremists in his midst.
 
Given how horribly corporations like Walmart treat their employees, denying them the right to unionize and cleverly avoiding paying anything toward their health insurance, I have never understood why Libertarians think corporations would be nicer to us if we could not organize government protections from them. It is the government of the state of Maryland that protected workers from Walmart's exploitation of them. Libertarian faith in the utopia that comes from the withering of the state strikes me as just as impractical as the similar Marxist theory.

Silly. Corporations are a product of the state and the state has granted them protection to abuse us.

Another point, Clinton and other Democrats have presided over just as abusive governments. The only reason Clinton was not able to do as much Bush is because there was an opposition party with balls and much power in congress.
 
I have major problems with too many of the groups and some individuals that back Ron Paul. Then again, I'm very much against racism and anti-semitism. Now if it was just one group, Stormfront, well it may not be as problematic, even if he chose not to repudiate. However, this gives a pretty good round-up of the major problem supporters and the likes of which makes the accusations of internet trolling and big donations much more believable.


http://niksnest.blogspot.com/2007/11/ron-paul-revulsion.html

...Consider, if you will, the ideology behind racist groups. They are against big government. They value their privacy. Many ascribe to the idea of state's rights above all else. Many believe that taxation is illegal. Some desire segregation while others favor deportation or even genocide. They despise minorities and especially folks of the Jewish persuasion. Generally speaking, they deplore multiculturalism and non-white immigration into this country. So…what is it about Ron Paul that draws them into his backyard? In all seriousness…you have to look at the man and what he stands for to see the whole picture.



In a wonderfully researched article Andrew Walden, of American Thinker, has chronicled the racist and extremist support that has attached itself to the Ron Paul campaign. Walden accurately points out that most political candidates would do anything and everything possible to distance themselves from many of the people who are supporting Dr. Paul. However, it seems that distancing is not going to happen.



Let's look at some of those extremists a little more closely.



WILLIS CARTO



Willis Carto, now in his 70's, hails from the far right wing of American politics. He was heavily influenced by philosopher Francis Parker Yockey…who sympathized with Nazi War Criminals while prosecuting them at the Nuremburg Trials....

Carto also publishes many of Ron Paul's writings.



IN CARTO'S OWN WORDS…



"Who is using who [sic]? Who is calling the shots? History supplies the answer to this. History tells us plainly who our Enemy is. Our Enemy today is the same Enemy of 50 years ago and before -- and that was before Communism. The Communists are 'using' the Jews we are told. . . . [W]ho was 'using the Jews 50 years ago --100 or 1,000 years ago. History supplies the answer. The Jews came first and remain Public Enemy No. 1.


"Hitler's defeat was the defeat of Europe. And of America. . . . The blame . . . must be laid at the door of the international Jews."


"If Satan himself... had tried to create a... force for the destruction of the nations, he could have done no better than to invent the Jews."



DAVID DUKE




David Duke is the former Grand Wizard of the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan. Duke won election to the Louisiana State Legislature and ran for president twice as both a Democrat and a Republican. (Interesting how if they don't get in the door of one party, they just switch.)

...

IN DUKE'S OWN WORDS…


"What we really want to do is to be left alone. We don't want Negroes around. We don't need Negroes around. We're not asking you know, we don't want to have them, you know, for our culture. We simply want our own country and our own society. That's in no way exploitive at all. We want our own society, our own nation...." ( Duke interview with doctoral student Evelyn Rich, who
traveled around the country with Duke while conducting
research for her dissertation on the KKK. March 1985)


"They're trying to exterminate our race. I think, probably in a moral sense, the Jewish people have been a blight. I mean as a whole, not every Jew. And they probably deserve to go into the ashbin of history. But saying that and actually shooting or killing people in masses, are two different things. I'm not advocating extermination. I think the best thing is to resettle them in someplace where they can't exploit others. And I don't think they can live among themselves, I really don't." ( Evelyn Rich interview, February 1986)



DON BLACK


Don Black runs the infamous website known as "Stormfront." Stormfront is the first and largest hate site on the web. Black was also a Grand Wizard of the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan. He is close friends with David Duke in spite of the fact that Duke's first wife is now Mrs. Don Black.


In 1981, Black was convicted of attempting an armed overthrow of the Dominican government in what was dubbed "Operation Red Dog," or "Bayou of Pigs." He was joined by nine other would-be mercenaries who were largely members of the Klan.
Don Black not only runs Stormfront, but he hosts, according to the Anti-Defamation League, a site called Bamboo Delight which is replete with anti-Semitic programs and pamphlets. At first glance in appears to be a cheesey website promoting Asian health aids…but look again. It is chocked full of statements such as:


"The next time you think about going to a Jewish doctor,
know the basic teaching for a Jewish physician and think twice about it.



"It is forbidden [for a Jewish doctor] to heal a non-Jew even for payment..."
an"It is forbidden to save non-Jews if they are at the point of death;
if, for example, one of them is seen falling into the sea, he should not be rescued."


--
"Now do you know why diseases are never cured but only treated and treated and treated for money and more money and more money ???


"All Jewish physicians are devils. Don't submit yourself to their swindles.".
....

JAMIE KELSO


Jamie Kelso is a Senior Moderator on the Stormfront forum and David Duke's right hand man. He has been hugely successful in helping Don Black build the now Stormfront forum into the 119,000 plus members that it is today. He did this by encouraging some of the more prolific writers in the movement such as Sam Dickson, from the Council of Conservative Citizens, and Willis Carto to start posting on the forum. According to Wikipedia…


"He was the chairman of the May 2004 and May 2005 New Orleans conferences attended by a number of white nationalists, including Nick Griffin, chair of the British National Party; Jean-Michel Girard, Directeur de cabinet des affaires etrangeres of the Front National of France; and Lady Michele Renouf from the UK. Kelso lived at David Duke's headquarters in St. Tammany Parish, Louisiana during this time. He also organized an April 2004 international revisionist conference in Sacramento attended by attorney Edgar J. Steele, author of Defensive Racism; Paul Fromm, chair of the Canadian Association for Free Expression; and April Gaede and her daughters Lamb and Lynx, twin members of the band Prussian Blue.


IN JAMIE KELSO'S OWN WORDS…


"We can have peace and security only as long as we band together to preserve that most priceless possession, our inheritance of European blood."

...

EDGAR J. STEELE


Edgar J. Steele is an anti-Semitic and racist attorney out of Sandpoint, Idaho. He is probably most well known for his defense of Richard Butler, head of Aryan Nations, in a 2000, suit that was brought about when Aryan Nation's guards attack a woman and her son. Steele lost the case and Richard Butler lost his compound.


Currently, Steele runs a website called "Conspiracy Pen Pal," where he posts his anti-Semitic and racist rants as well as his support for Ron Paul.


According to the Anti-Defamation League…


"Steele also regularly attacks blacks in his books, columns and speeches. He alleges the existence of a "Black-on-White race war" in the U.S., and claims that blacks have "inherited" a distinctly "African" culture of "rape…murder…violence…[and] single-parent families." He has also called for organized opposition to African Americans in the entertainment industry, asking his readers to join him in boycotting "products advertised with black actors and models," and "TV shows and movies with black actors."



"Steele publishes a weekly commentary on his Web site, and his writings are also distributed widely through E-mail lists. Steele's open association with white supremacists has become well-known, and he is a sought-after speaker at conferences of right-wing extremists, including those conducted by the National Alliance, Volksfront, and the Institute for Historical Review."


IN EDGAR STEELE'S OWN WORDS…


"Truly the Masters of Disaster on a national scale, Jews have been ejected from society after society, down through the ages -- always for the same reasons and always claiming to be the victims of unjustified persecution. Today, however, they are engineering a disaster global in its reach -- their "final solution," if you will: the New World Order. And America is their intended vehicle. America's founders were well aware of the dangers presented by the Jewish race." (August 25, 2003)



"Join me, won't you? Boycott products advertised with black actors and models. Make a statement: If you see black, don't go back. Boycott TV shows and movies with black actors. Send the message that we are fed up: If we see "black, we don't go back. Cancel your subscriptions to newspapers and magazines that push black articles, columnists and advertisements into your face. There are plenty available that don't. Not coincidentally, those that don't promote blacks are the same ones that actually tell the truth about other things, too. Tell them when you cancel: If we see black, we don't go back."


....

WILL WILLIAMS



Will Williams is a long time racist and activist in various organizations within the white supremacist realm. Ben Klassen, founder of the Church of the Creator and author of the "White Man's Bible," and other publications, wrote about Williams and his stay at Klassen's one-time compound. According to Klassen, Willliams assaulted his girlfriend and eventually had to leave. Williams also provided security for the late William Luther Pierce, founder of the neo-Nazi National Alliance.


Williams, at one point, was a great recruiter of young people into the National Alliance as he would distribute comic books entitled "The Saga of White Will." The publication depicted a violent attack on a Jewish kid by the hero.


With more than 30 years of racist rallies, events, and recruiting under his belt, Will Williams has decided that Ron Paul is the candidate that will best represent whites and non-Jews. With a fervor, he has been promoting Paul across hate groups on the internet and he formed a "Meet-up" group for Tennessee. Refusing to compromise his hate speech, especially against the Jewish population, Williams became a prolific poster on the Ron Paul Forums where he berated what he calls "Jewish influence" and posted the writings of Dr. William Luther Pierce and others....


RON DOGGETT


Ron Doggett is a former Klansman and current David Duke lackey. Out of Richmond, Virginia, Doggett used to host a public access show entitled "Race and Reality."


According to the Southern Poverty Law Center,


"In February of 2001, Doggett testified to the Virginia Senate Rules Committee in favor of maintaining the state's unconstitutional law against interracial marriage. He pulled off an even more remarkable coup a month later, when he convinced then-Gov. Jim Gilmore, who was also then heading up the Republican National Committee, to declare May "European American Heritage and History Month" — an astounding feat given Doggett's local notoriety. Two months later, a red-faced Gilmore rescinded his proclamation."



IN RON DOGGETT'S OWN WORDS...


On the vandalizing of the Martin Luther King Bridge: "I not a fan of graffiti but that hit the mark.
Of course it could be argued that putting the name M.L.King on it was worse than any spray paint"
...

you get thte idea. I just learned the lesson from my mom, "Show me who your friends are and I'll show you who you are."
 
Further, the notion that Bush or the neocons hate government is absurd. That does not seem to be the authors idea but cypress'.
 
I have major problems with too many of the groups and some individuals that back Ron Paul. Then again, I'm very much against racism and anti-semitism. Now if it was just one group, Stormfront, well it may not be as problematic, even if he chose not to repudiate. However, this gives a pretty good round-up of the major problem supporters and the likes of which makes the accusations of internet trolling and big donations much more believable.


http://niksnest.blogspot.com/2007/11/ron-paul-revulsion.html



you get thte idea. I just learned the lesson from my mom, "Show me who your friends are and I'll show you who you are."

I am tired of you people saying that bac and desh are racists/neonazis. It's not true!

These people endorse or support not the reverse. They are not his friends.

Here is what his friends say.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/block/block88.html
 
The article really is a good one. Ron Paul would NEVER have had this kind of support in 2000. Clinton was leaving office with the economy in relatively good shape, there was no Patriot Act and no undeclared war in the Middle East. Bush and the Neocons after 8 years have so alienated the lefty and righty anarchists and anti-war dems that he has put together a group of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" supporters. Couple that with his strong pro-states rights belief and you get the neo-nazis and skinheads in for good measure. Don't get me wrong I don't think all pro states rights voters are skinheads, but america's racist best was at a time when the feds didn't interfere with Jim Crow and segregated schools. Anytime anyone says anything about states rights, the white whiners ears perk up. They long for a day when the "coloreds" will once again know their place. But I digress. I am SOOOO tired of Bush that I too am a Paul Supporter even though he thinks state governments should be allowed to force women to remain pregnant and, most anti-libertarian of all, believes that states should be allowed to regulate marriage contracts. But I am still leary, especially since NO ONE from the Paul campaign seems willing to address the white supremists in his midst.


The article really is a good one. Ron Paul would NEVER have had this kind of support in 2000. Clinton was leaving office with the economy in relatively good shape, there was no Patriot Act and no undeclared war in the Middle East. Bush and the Neocons after 8 years have so alienated the lefty and righty anarchists and anti-war dems that he has put together a group of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" supporters.


Thank you Soc!

This seems to happen a lot. I post something, and a few posters will follow up, calling me a moron, and dismissing the post. And then you - a libertarian no less - show up, and basically support the exact same thing I was saying!

Wonder if you'll get called a moron! lol

"Bush and the Neocons after 8 years have so alienated the lefty and righty anarchists and anti-war dems that he has put together a group of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" supporters."

Yep, that's exactly what I said. Cheers!
 
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Anybody supported so wholeheartedly, even to the point of looking past little "foibles" like receiving direction from aliens in Shirley McLaine's back yard, by an avowed socialist will never, ever, receive my vote.

Of course, it wouldn't have taken BAC or anybody else for that to happen, but it really cements it right on down to the core...

:D

I freely admit, that UFO thing was pretty kooky :eek:

lol
 
Further, the notion that Bush or the neocons hate government is absurd. That does not seem to be the authors idea but cypress'.



The Neocons and Bush love the government if they are the ones running it. The republican party is the one who gets people to vote for it by saying things like the government cant do anything right. Then they get into office and Prove its true.

Democrats think government can do good. Democrats dont always prove this is true but they do better than Republicans do. Wither on the vine and shrink it enough to drag it down the hall and drown it in the bath tub (remember).
 
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