Air Traffic Controllers Warned US Army Helicopter Ahead Of Crash

IBDaMann said:
Irrelevant.

The tower's top priority was to issue a collision alert to the pilots and to provide course correction. The tower's top priority doesn't change if someone lies or misinforms.
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They did provide the appropriate response. The helicopter pilot requested visual separation and confirmed they saw the flight. There was literally nothing ATC could have done.
IBDaMann said:
She clearly made a mistake. The tower is not absolved of its duty to control the air traffic and to issue alerts per their responsibility. Nonetheless, the tower made nary a peep, until after the collision and someone in the tower said "ooops."

The tower failed by not preventing the collision by the means outlined in USDOT FAA JO 7110.65W
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She clearly fucked up, yes, by requesting visual separation and claiming she saw the flight. Not ATC's failure here
 
SlaveForChrist said:
Translation: you're talking out of your gaping asshole
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An obsession with rectums is not formally classified in psychological or medical literature with a specific name. However, it can be related to:

  • Coprophilia: This is a sexual interest in feces or the act of defecation, which might indirectly relate to an obsession with the rectum as part of this interest.
  • Eproctophilia: This term refers to a sexual interest in flatulence (farting), which again might tangentially relate to an interest in the rectal area, as the rectum is involved in the expulsion of gas.

Please note, these terms describe specific sexual fetishes rather than a general obsession with the anatomical structure itself. If someone has an unusual focus or obsession with the rectum outside of these sexual contexts, it might be indicative of a broader psychological issue or phobia, but there isn't a specific term for this in clinical psychology.


@Grok
 
TOP said:
Do we know that DEI had Nothing to do with the incident?
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How could it? The controllers all had to meet the qualifications. They were not lowered to let anyone in.
The choppers have been making the flights for many years, hundreds of times. In case of an emergency, the military might have had to fly to the DC airport with troops. They were practicing as normal.
You Trumpys jump on the incident so certain something was wrong. You do not wait for an investigation to find the truth.
Just because Trump opens his mouth way, way too soon against presidential norms, does not mean you cannot do better.
 
SlaveForChrist said:
They did provide the appropriate response.
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Nope. Read the USDOT FAA JO 7110.65W


SlaveForChrist said:
The helicopter pilot requested visual separation and confirmed they saw the flight.
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Nope. The helicopter pilot, Captain Rebecca M. Lobach, never confirmed that she and the tower were talking about the same thing. Captain Lobach was obviously mistaken.

Regardless, no collision alert was given. No course correction was given. The tower failed. Period. End of story.

SlaveForChrist said:
There was literally nothing ATC could have done.
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There was literally the ATC's job that could have been done, and should have been done, and would have been done if it hadn't been a DEI cesspool.

No collision warning issued. No course correction issued. Bad joo-joo on the tower's part.
 
Nordberg said:
The controllers all had to meet the [drastically lowered] qualifications [and become released from all accountability under Biden's immunity regulations] . They were [not] lowered to let just about anyone in.
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FTFY. Controllers apparently don't have to do their jobs.

Trump needs to press the issue. DEI needs to be rooted out.
 
IBDaMann said:
US Department of Transportation
Federal Aviation Administration
Order JO 7110.65W

Chapter 2. General Control
Section 1. General
2−1−1. ATC SERVICE
The primary purpose of the ATC system is to prevent a collision between aircraft operating in the system and to provide a safe, orderly and expeditiousflow of traffic, and to provide support for National Security and Homeland Defense.

Section 1. General
2−1−2. DUTY PRIORITY
a. Give first priority to separating aircraft and issuing safety alerts as required in this order. Good judgment must be used in prioritizing all other provisions of this order based on the requirements of the situation at hand.

Section 1. General
2−1−6. SAFETY ALERT
Issue a safety alert to an aircraft if you are aware the aircraft is in a position/altitude that, in your judgment,places it in unsafe proximity to terrain, obstructions,or other aircraft.
NOTE−1. The issuance of a safety alert is a first priority (see para 2−1−2, Duty Priority) once the controller observes and recognizes a situation of unsafe aircraft proximity to terrain, obstacles, or other aircraft.


Chapter 3. Airport Traffic Control− Terminal
Section 2. Visual Signals
3−2−2. WARNING SIGNAL
Direct a general warning signal, alternating red and green, to aircraft or vehicle operators, as appropriate,
when: NOTE− The warning signal is not a prohibitive signal and can be followed by any other light signal, as circumstances
permit.
a. Aircraft are converging and a collision hazard exists.

Pilot/Controller Glossary
PCG A−1
A
AIR TRAFFIC CONTROL SERVICE [ICAO]− A service provided for the purpose of a preventing collisions: 1. Between aircraft; and 2. On the maneuvering area between aircraftand obstructions. b. Expediting and maintaining an orderly flow of air traffic.

RESOLUTION ADVISORY−A display indication given to the pilot by the traffic alert and collisionavoidance systems (TCAS II) recommending amaneuver to increase vertical separation relative to an intruding aircraft. Positive, negative, and verticalspeed limit (VSL) advisories constitute the resolutionadvisories. A resolution advisory is also classified as corrective or preventive

SAFETY LOGIC SYSTEM ALERTS−a. ALERT− An actual situation involving two real safety logic tracks (aircraft/aircraft, aircraft/vehicle, or aircraft/other tangible object) that safety logic has predicted will result in an imminent collision, based upon the current set of Safety Logic parameters.
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thanks. and you don't think that the verbal instruction to follow BEHIND the aircraft would be considered within that policy???
 
IBDaMann said:
The controller can do his job and alert the pilot(s) that he/they are on a collision path. The tower's main purpose is to prevent collisions and to alert aircraft of potential/imminent collisions.

You'll notice that none of that happened.
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was there time to do such a thing? what was the amount of time that passed between the copter being told to follow behind the jet and the collision?
 
IBDaMann said:
Again, the air traffic controllers have all the power to do their jobs. But wait, they didn't. Feel free to read the USDOT FAA JO 7110.65W and see for yourself. I already posted the relevant sections but I always recommend a good reading.
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not sure where you believe that the tower has ultimate power to fly the aircraft itself................the controller can give every instruction possible, but if the pilot is ignoring it or doesn't hear it, it's not the controllers fault.
 
Nordberg said:
How could it? The controllers all had to meet the qualifications. They were not lowered to let anyone in.
The choppers have been making the flights for many years, hundreds of times. In case of an emergency, the military might have had to fly to the DC airport with troops. They were practicing as normal.
You Trumpys jump on the incident so certain something was wrong. You do not wait for an investigation to find the truth.
Just because Trump opens his mouth way, way too soon against presidential norms, does not mean you cannot do better.
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We know that there's a shortage of air traffic controllers and we also know that many have been turned away because hiring procedure and training has changed... There's currently a class action suit Involving About a 1000 applicants and the F. A. A.... I'm patiently waiting for the investigation to be complete ... to discover what actually happened so that a tragedy like this never happens again... I understand that you don't like the president.... But he Speaks from the heart.... Without much filter Unfortunately but that is who he is... He expressed
that there was a problem...possible DEI related... and that very well may be true... we shall see...
 
TOP said:
We know that there's a shortage of air traffic controllers and we also know that many have been turned away because hiring procedure and training has changed... There's currently a class action suit Involving About a 1000 applicants and the F. A. A.... I'm patiently waiting for the investigation to be complete ... to discover what actually happened so that a tragedy like this never happens again... I understand that you don't like the president.... But he Speaks from the heart.... Without much filter Unfortunately but that is who he is... He expressed
that there was a problem...possible DEI related... and that very well may be true... we shall see...
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Morning, TOP.

We had an Affirmative Action (that's what a DEI hire was called then) hire and I was assigned to train him.

He was a minority. After about a week, he told me that he couldn't handle the job and left the tower. He later was arrested for drug trafficking. His initials (for the log) were K.K.K....true story. Sad story.

We had two minority hires and they were both good controllers, well liked and well respected.

Degrading the standards for ATC's is a dangerous policy. I expect that will change with President Trump.
 
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