Air Traffic Controllers Warned US Army Helicopter Ahead Of Crash

IBDaMann said:
Incorrect. The ATC is still responsible for controlling all the air traffic.
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The controller cant fly the aircraft, and it all breaks down if there is no trust.....lying to the controller was the original sin here in my opinion based upon what I know.

I will continue to take in and process information.
 
This was either copter pilot incompetence/hubris or this was a terrorist attack.....for sure the copter lied to the controller who has to be able to trust what the pilots say unless he can be sure that they are lying....I am not willing to blame the controller for this.
 
Anyone who has ever found themselves in a short staffing situation should be able to see that the controller likely would have made different choices had he had the time he was supposed to have to deal with these two crafts.....but he did not......which was not his fault.

I am not willing to hang him here .....hang the supervisor who allowed this situation to happen.

I want to know why the other person left early.

Almost surely it is a stupid reason.

Hang the Supervisor.
 
SmarterthanYou said:
in what ATC manual are you getting that supposed directive from?????
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US Department of Transportation
Federal Aviation Administration
Order JO 7110.65W

Chapter 2. General Control
Section 1. General
2−1−1. ATC SERVICE
The primary purpose of the ATC system is to prevent a collision between aircraft operating in the system and to provide a safe, orderly and expeditiousflow of traffic, and to provide support for National Security and Homeland Defense.

Section 1. General
2−1−2. DUTY PRIORITY
a. Give first priority to separating aircraft and issuing safety alerts as required in this order. Good judgment must be used in prioritizing all other provisions of this order based on the requirements of the situation at hand.

Section 1. General
2−1−6. SAFETY ALERT
Issue a safety alert to an aircraft if you are aware the aircraft is in a position/altitude that, in your judgment,places it in unsafe proximity to terrain, obstructions,or other aircraft.
NOTE−1. The issuance of a safety alert is a first priority (see para 2−1−2, Duty Priority) once the controller observes and recognizes a situation of unsafe aircraft proximity to terrain, obstacles, or other aircraft.


Chapter 3. Airport Traffic Control− Terminal
Section 2. Visual Signals
3−2−2. WARNING SIGNAL
Direct a general warning signal, alternating red and green, to aircraft or vehicle operators, as appropriate,
when: NOTE− The warning signal is not a prohibitive signal and can be followed by any other light signal, as circumstances
permit.
a. Aircraft are converging and a collision hazard exists.

Pilot/Controller Glossary
PCG A−1
A
AIR TRAFFIC CONTROL SERVICE [ICAO]− A service provided for the purpose of a preventing collisions: 1. Between aircraft; and 2. On the maneuvering area between aircraftand obstructions. b. Expediting and maintaining an orderly flow of air traffic.

RESOLUTION ADVISORY−A display indication given to the pilot by the traffic alert and collisionavoidance systems (TCAS II) recommending amaneuver to increase vertical separation relative to an intruding aircraft. Positive, negative, and verticalspeed limit (VSL) advisories constitute the resolutionadvisories. A resolution advisory is also classified as corrective or preventive

SAFETY LOGIC SYSTEM ALERTS−a. ALERT− An actual situation involving two real safety logic tracks (aircraft/aircraft, aircraft/vehicle, or aircraft/other tangible object) that safety logic has predicted will result in an imminent collision, based upon the current set of Safety Logic parameters.
 
SlaveForChrist said:
Um no. The ATC was misinformed
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Irrelevant.

The tower's top priority was to issue a collision alert to the pilots and to provide course correction. The tower's top priority doesn't change if someone lies or misinforms.


SlaveForChrist said:
by the incompetent inexperienced female pilot who claimed she had visual on the plane,
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She clearly made a mistake. The tower is not absolved of its duty to control the air traffic and to issue alerts per their responsibility. Nonetheless, the tower made nary a peep, until after the collision and someone in the tower said "ooops."

The tower failed by not preventing the collision by the means outlined in USDOT FAA JO 7110.65W
 
I dont care what your instructions from HQ are, if people die like this on your watch after you let someone leave early for any reason other than medical emergency then you should hang.

If you dont think you can deal with the consequences of telling the controller that they must finish their shift then you need to quit.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
I dont care what your instructions from HQ are, if people die like this on your watch after you let someone leave early for any reason other than medical emergency then you should hang.
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There were probably several layers of failures at the tower, leading to the lone DEI-hire controller being asleep at the wheel. I get it.
 
IBDaMann said:
There were probably several layers of failures at the tower, leading to the lone DEI-hire controller being asleep at the wheel. I get it.
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You are fixated on the one controller on the job being DIE HIRE....what is your evidence?

More likely the reason the one controller did not have the time to do the job properly was WOKE "compassion" creating the short staffing situation.....likely the supervisor was trying to be compassionate to the controller that left early, that is much more the problem than anything the overworked controller did or did not do.
 
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