can you quantify that damo?
How many people and arab countries were involved in these "spontaneus" (not "staged") Arab Street celebrations Damo....so we can get a "feel" for what you are "talking" about...
Al Qaeda in Iraq followers told to kill 'at least one American'
- Thread starter Damocles
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can you quantify that damo?
How many people and arab countries were involved in these "spontaneus" (not "staged") Arab Street celebrations Damo....so we can get a "feel" for what you are "talking" about...
Enough that I saw it on more than just "Fox Reports" as claimed by Cypress. It was also shown by al-Jazeera, in fact it was the first time I had heard of them at all...can you quantify that damo?
How many people and arab countries were involved in these "spontaneus" (not "staged") Arab Street celebrations Damo....so we can get a "feel" for what you are "talking" about...
Can you quantify all the spontaneous sadness, or do we only have pictures of spontaneous celebration?
We can quantify what the official government positions were, but not the spontaneous sadness that supposedly happened. We can however actually point to pictures of celebrating Arabs...
Don't believe me. Do you believe Colin Powell?
Colin Powell, on Jim Lehrer News Hours:
"The other day we saw some images from the occupied territories from the West Bank and people cheering what had happened, and that sort of was seared in our mind. I got a message in from our Consul General in Jerusalem saying that his switchboard is swamped with calls from Palestinians --Palestinian officials, Palestinian people -- expressing their distaste for that kind of display, and letting us know that they were expressing their condolences and sympathy to us as wel. That is the civilized reaction.
http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/powell&lehrer.htm
OrnotBitwise
Watermelon
Exactly. A spontaneous celebration or demonstration does not prove that any sort of consensus exists. Did the huge number of anti-war demonstrations in early 2003 prove that the American street was against the war? Do the huge number of immigrants' rights rallies now prove that the American street is against tightening immigration restrictions?can you quantify that damo?
How many people and arab countries were involved in these "spontaneus" (not "staged") Arab Street celebrations Damo....so we can get a "feel" for what you are "talking" about...
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So when Bush and his NeoCon buddies tell us that the average iranian people love us, and empathize with us, they're lying?
That's good to know... It doesn't change that I saw them celebrate and will forever know that they believe me to be their enemy regardless of whether I supported them or not. That some are "disgusted by such a display" doesn't change that they celebrated. I can be disgusted by people celebrating the death of al-Zarqawi or somebody else, but that doesn't mean I didn't think it should happen either...
The official stance of a government is often different than the spontaneous reaction of the populace.
Once again, Iranians are not Arabs. What part of that are you having difficulty with?
And also once again, calling for a moment of silence is not the same as spontaneous reaction which often shows what a person actually feels better than the official position of government. Or do YOU really believe that Iraq is an important factor in the WOT because it is the official position of the government?
It is disingenuous to point out government action and compare it to spontaneous reaction and promote it as one and the same.
We do not know what the regular person in Iran thinks, their government keeps them relatively silent.
uscitizen
Villified User
Yeah, but it was kindof like the mouse that roard, our actions have turned the mouse into a moose.
OrnotBitwise
Watermelon
I don't take it personally. Hell, if I were a Palestinian refugee I'd probably be anti-American myself. I'd like to think I wouldn't celebrate something like the September 11th attacks but I can't say for certain that I wouldn't.
Where so much frustration and resentment build up, such displays by an extreme minority are inevitable. Don't get too emotional about it.
It does show what the feelings of those people are and the protests were designed and never spontaneous.
Once again it is disingenuous to compare a planned protest with a spontaneous reaction and promote them as one and the same.
There's always going to be some assholes in the arab world who celebrate the deaths of americans. We have americans on this board who want to nuke arabs.
There's a lot of hatred to go around.
I think the fox news images of a few celebrating paletstians was over-sold. Evidently, Colin Powel, and the American Consulate in Jerusalem agree with me.
OrnotBitwise
Watermelon
Why are you so concerned about their feelings of the moment? Why is that significant?
I think action in Afghanistan would have been used to do the same and that no reaction at all would have been used to do the same, etc. I believe that working our Foreign Policy on fear that Terrorists may call us an enemy is foolish, especially when almost any action we take could lead us in that direction.
While Iraq is right now the focus, so too would Afghanistan had been if that was the only place we were, and so too would the US be if we simply didn't react...
Once again, if we had only been in Afghanistan any action taken as a show of "success" in Afghanistan would have been used the same way, and as the "war" progressed it would have been in much the same place as now. Each successful IED in Afghanistan would be another point... and so on. Saying it is "all because of Iraq" refuses to recognize the past.
Or the Buddhists? What is your point? It wouldn't make Asians into Aryans if we called them that. There are a ton of Christians in Korea, are they Aryans because of their religion?
Because that was what I was speaking about. Each time you keep bringing up, "This official government position" and present it as evidence that it was how ALL of them felt, while we know that wasn't the case.
OrnotBitwise
Watermelon
Well put. I just don't see why those celebrations should be taken seriously.
OrnotBitwise
Watermelon
I've done no such thing. In fact, I don't believe I've made any generalizations about how "ALL of them" feel now or felt then.
I don't believe a consensus exists in the Arab world that killing American civilians is justified. In fact, I'm quite sure it doesn't exist, given polls taken in many Arabic and Muslim nations by Pew and other academic institutions. That's all that matters to me on the subject.
uscitizen
Villified User
I take this view because some extremists in our country are taking Bush's rhetoric to mean we are at war with Islam. Is it unreasonable to assume that the islamic folks will not feel the same way ?
They would feel that way before that then. The "Islamists" reported that they were at war with us long before that. Ignoring the past isn't helping you here.