Alabama Shooting

Dixie said:
Nonsense. The basis for all Western law is the 10 Commandments and the Code of Hammurabi. This is why the 10 Commandments are carved into the marble of the Supreme Court of the United States. Two of the 10 Commandments are direct laws, several others are indirect basis for laws in Western culture. To argue this is not so, is profound ignorance of either the 10 Commandments, or Western law.
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That is why Moses (holding the 10 Commandments) shares equal space with Justinian, Augustus, Menes, Lycurgus, Solon, Draco, and Confucius.
 
Dixie said:
Nonsense. The basis for all Western law is the 10 Commandments and the Code of Hammurabi. This is why the 10 Commandments are carved into the marble of the Supreme Court of the United States. Two of the 10 Commandments are direct laws, several others are indirect basis for laws in Western culture. To argue this is not so, is profound ignorance of either the 10 Commandments, or Western law.
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Dixie you just plain don't know what you're talking about. The vast bulk of common law as we know it has it's historical antecedents in Roman common law which predates Christianity.
 
Yes, originally in the west all schools were church schools. But that is ancient history. What we have now is a system that allows people from all backgrounds, religions, races, and classes to learn the huge amount of information necessary to prepare them for college or life as a well-rounded member of society.
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But the system now produces people like the nutcase from Alabama! Part of preparing for life as a well-rounded member of society.... maybe should include some level of reverence and respect for a higher authority? Perhaps this is where we are failing? Maybe if we actually TAUGHT people to respect life, respect other human beings, love each other, and forgive trespasses, we may not have as many nutcases mowing down the town with semi-automatic weapons.... maybe?

You want to twist what I am saying into some abhorrent overbearing religious wacko message, and that isn't my point at all. This isn't really about religious viewpoints, or any specific religious dogma. It's about teaching and instilling a sense of human moral decency in people from an early age. We tend to think of this as "religious" but that is because this is the vehicle in which humans understand such concepts, or the one which seems to have been proven most effective at accomplishing this behavior in other humans. I'm not specifically advocating ANY particular religious belief, but rather, a return to moral decency, being taught and instilled from an early age, through adulthood. Respect for these beliefs, and an understanding of the importance to each of us as members of a functional society. You don't have to be a Christian to understand the wrongness of mowing down your neighbors in a fit of rage! You do have to believe life is sacred and precious, and it's not our place to arbitrarily decide the fate of others. These may seem like common sense values to you and I, but we live in a day where this is simply avoided in public education, because it is somehow associated with religion.
 
Dixie said:
But the system now produces people like the nutcase from Alabama! Part of preparing for life as a well-rounded member of society.... maybe should include some level of reverence and respect for a higher authority? Perhaps this is where we are failing? Maybe if we actually TAUGHT people to respect life, respect other human beings, love each other, and forgive trespasses, we may not have as many nutcases mowing down the town with semi-automatic weapons.... maybe?

You want to twist what I am saying into some abhorrent overbearing religious wacko message, and that isn't my point at all. This isn't really about religious viewpoints, or any specific religious dogma. It's about teaching and instilling a sense of human moral decency in people from an early age. We tend to think of this as "religious" but that is because this is the vehicle in which humans understand such concepts, or the one which seems to have been proven most effective at accomplishing this behavior in other humans. I'm not specifically advocating ANY particular religious belief, but rather, a return to moral decency, being taught and instilled from an early age, through adulthood. Respect for these beliefs, and an understanding of the importance to each of us as members of a functional society. You don't have to be a Christian to understand the wrongness of mowing down your neighbors in a fit of rage! You do have to believe life is sacred and precious, and it's not our place to arbitrarily decide the fate of others. These may seem like common sense values to you and I, but we live in a day where this is simply avoided in public education, because it is somehow associated with religion.
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You are trying to say that the lack of religion in schools produced this tragedy. That is pure bullshit.

Either you are misguided, or you are using this horror to press your agenda. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt and going with the former.

We DO teach a respect for life where I come from. Taking a life is seen as a heinous act by everyone I know.
 
Dixie said:
But the system now produces people like the nutcase from Alabama! Part of preparing for life as a well-rounded member of society.... maybe should include some level of reverence and respect for a higher authority? Perhaps this is where we are failing? Maybe if we actually TAUGHT people to respect life, respect other human beings, love each other, and forgive trespasses, we may not have as many nutcases mowing down the town with semi-automatic weapons.... maybe?

You want to twist what I am saying into some abhorrent overbearing religious wacko message, and that isn't my point at all. This isn't really about religious viewpoints, or any specific religious dogma. It's about teaching and instilling a sense of human moral decency in people from an early age. We tend to think of this as "religious" but that is because this is the vehicle in which humans understand such concepts, or the one which seems to have been proven most effective at accomplishing this behavior in other humans. I'm not specifically advocating ANY particular religious belief, but rather, a return to moral decency, being taught and instilled from an early age, through adulthood. Respect for these beliefs, and an understanding of the importance to each of us as members of a functional society. You don't have to be a Christian to understand the wrongness of mowing down your neighbors in a fit of rage! You do have to believe life is sacred and precious, and it's not our place to arbitrarily decide the fate of others. These may seem like common sense values to you and I, but we live in a day where this is simply avoided in public education, because it is somehow associated with religion.
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I think you're arguing from a false premise and a sweeping generality. I would say most people are taught morality from a very early age, wether it be religious or otherwise and that teaching morals and ethics is not avoided in pulbic education. This is simply not true. I was taught much in public school about the value of human life and dignity.
 
Solitary said:
You are trying to say that the lack of religion in schools produced this tragedy. That is pure bullshit.

Either you are misguided, or you are using this horror to press your agenda. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt and going with the former.

We DO teach a respect for life where I come from. Taking a life is seen as a heinous act by everyone I know.
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ditto
 
Solitary said:
Dixie, you are so full of shit.

The difference between the display of Roy Moore and the SCOTUS is that the SCOTUS has a lot of things on display concerning laws. Yes, there is a frieze of Moses and the 10 Commandments.

But in the same section are friezes of Hammurabi, Lycurgus, Confucius, Solomon, and more. On the opposite wall there are friezes of Justinian, Muhammad, Charlemagne, Napoleon and more law givers.

The SCOTUS includes the 10 Commandments in their display of law givers. Roy Moore made it the only display. There is a huge difference.
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No... let me explain the difference for your dumb ass... The ONLY difference in what Roy Moore displayed and what is carved into the marble of the SCOTUS, is the change in our society from one time to another. Back when the carving of the 10 Commandments was made in the halls of the SCOTUS, there were not ANY Americans who would have even dreamed of protesting that! It wouldn't have even crossed their minds, because most of them fully understood the foundational basis for this country was rooted in the belief of God, who endowed us with the inalienable rights articulated in the Constitution! To remove God, is to fundamentally remove the premise on which the whole Constitution is based and rooted.

Presently, we live in a time where people are ignorant of this, they have listened to Atheist Socialist Communist scum buckets who want to destroy the Constitution and America, and like you, have completely bought into the notion that God has no place in our government. The ignorant masses, such as yourself, continue to assist them in the systematic erosion of our values and the foundational basis for our freedoms. You are too fundamentally stupid to realize what you're doing, you think you are standing on some great principle, which curiously enough, can't be supported with anything uttered by any of the founding fathers in any way. Yet, you will continue to parse their words, twist what they did say, and form a baseless argument for your objective of contributing to the destruction of our very foundation. You are too stubborn and foolish to realize how profoundly wrong you are, or what the hell you are doing, and you won't realize it until it is far too late to change what has happened. In the meantime, people like this nutcase from Alabama, can mow down the town, and you all pontificate on how we can further strip freedoms away from people, to prevent something like this from happening again. It's the textbook definition of "Insanity."
 
Dixie said:
No... let me explain the difference for your dumb ass... The ONLY difference in what Roy Moore displayed and what is carved into the marble of the SCOTUS, is the change in our society from one time to another. Back when the carving of the 10 Commandments was made in the halls of the SCOTUS, there were not ANY Americans who would have even dreamed of protesting that! It wouldn't have even crossed their minds, because most of them fully understood the foundational basis for this country was rooted in the belief of God, who endowed us with the inalienable rights articulated in the Constitution! To remove God, is to fundamentally remove the premise on which the whole Constitution is based and rooted.

Presently, we live in a time where people are ignorant of this, they have listened to Atheist Socialist Communist scum buckets who want to destroy the Constitution and America, and like you, have completely bought into the notion that God has no place in our government. The ignorant masses, such as yourself, continue to assist them in the systematic erosion of our values and the foundational basis for our freedoms. You are too fundamentally stupid to realize what you're doing, you think you are standing on some great principle, which curiously enough, can't be supported with anything uttered by any of the founding fathers in any way. Yet, you will continue to parse their words, twist what they did say, and form a baseless argument for your objective of contributing to the destruction of our very foundation. You are too stubborn and foolish to realize how profoundly wrong you are, or what the hell you are doing, and you won't realize it until it is far too late to change what has happened. In the meantime, people like this nutcase from Alabama, can mow down the town, and you all pontificate on how we can further strip freedoms away from people, to prevent something like this from happening again. It's the textbook definition of "Insanity."
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Dixie, that is such bullshit. What Roy Moore did was make one religion the official religion of the Alabama Supreme Court. What he did was allow one religious display and not allow another single thing to be displayed in the entire lobby.

What the SCOTUS sculptures recognize is the contributions of many individuals and many cultures in the creation of our laws.

What the SCOTUS friezes represent is a nation of many beliefs.

Your claims that the 10 Commandments are the basis for our laws is stretching the truth to the very limits.

"...they have listened to Atheist Socialist Communist scum buckets who want to destroy the Constitution and America, and like you, have completely bought into the notion that God has no place in our government. "

Dixie, you might try actually READING the US Constitution. What Roy Moore did was unconstitutional. That is a fact.
 
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Solitary said:
You are trying to say that the lack of religion in schools produced this tragedy. That is pure bullshit.

Either you are misguided, or you are using this horror to press your agenda. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt and going with the former.

We DO teach a respect for life where I come from. Taking a life is seen as a heinous act by everyone I know.
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I'm not trying to say any such thing. You are trying to cajole my comments into such a statement, so you can bash and trash. THAT is the bullshit going on here!

All I have interjected is this... Rather than examining our gun laws, or pontificating on how we may somehow intervene to prevent these kinds of things from happening in the future, or even accepting that this shit just happens and there is nothing that can be done.... MAYyyyybe... it would behoove us to examine how our culture has totally abandoned morality and decency from the ground up... how we've completely stripped our educational process of anything related to spiritual morality and ethics... how we've completely abandoned teaching respect and dignity on any level? I don't KNOW this would have made any difference, but it's damn sure worthy of consideration, in the advent of the current crucifixion of Christianity in America, and the seeming decline of morally decent human behavior in society.
 
Dixie said:
I'm not trying to say any such thing. You are trying to cajole my comments into such a statement, so you can bash and trash. THAT is the bullshit going on here!

All I have interjected is this... Rather than examining our gun laws, or pontificating on how we may somehow intervene to prevent these kinds of things from happening in the future, or even accepting that this shit just happens and there is nothing that can be done.... MAYyyyybe... it would behoove us to examine how our culture has totally abandoned morality and decency from the ground up... how we've completely stripped our educational process of anything related to spiritual morality and ethics... how we've completely abandoned teaching respect and dignity on any level? I don't KNOW this would have made any difference, but it's damn sure worthy of consideration, in the advent of the current crucifixion of Christianity in America, and the seeming decline of morally decent human behavior in society.
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There has actually been very little in the way of people wanting more gun laws in this discussion.

And there is no real way to prevent this from happening, short of removing the freedoms we have. Regardless of your wanting morals taught in schools, this is the truth.


I know there is plenty of work being done in schools to teach respect for others. I watched my 3 older kids have lessons, and have helped my 13 year old with similar lessons. It teaches kids to respect each other and other people. Its a limited values lesson, but it is there.



My biggest objection, Dixie, is that you want to blame everyone else for what happened. We are no more responsible for these acts of violence than you are. I have seen you talk about people needing to be responsible for their own lives. This sick fuck in south Alabama is the one responsible. Not me. Not you. Not the ACLU. Not anyone who is alive.
 
Dixie said:
I'm not trying to say any such thing. You are trying to cajole my comments into such a statement, so you can bash and trash. THAT is the bullshit going on here!

All I have interjected is this... Rather than examining our gun laws, or pontificating on how we may somehow intervene to prevent these kinds of things from happening in the future, or even accepting that this shit just happens and there is nothing that can be done.... MAYyyyybe... it would behoove us to examine how our culture has totally abandoned morality and decency from the ground up... how we've completely stripped our educational process of anything related to spiritual morality and ethics... how we've completely abandoned teaching respect and dignity on any level? I don't KNOW this would have made any difference, but it's damn sure worthy of consideration, in the advent of the current crucifixion of Christianity in America, and the seeming decline of morally decent human behavior in society.
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Now you're starting to sound paranoid like Asshat. What were arguing with you is that your argument is based on a false premise. It's just plain silly to argue that "our culture has totally abandoned morality and decency from the ground up." or that "we've completely stripped our educational process of anything related to spiritual morality and ethics... how we've completely abandoned teaching respect and dignity on any level." is just plain wrong. I see precious little evidence that this your claim is true.

I see an America that has probably the most vibrant and dynamic religious and spiritual vitality and influence on public life of probably any nation on this planet.

This is a something I think we, as Americans, can all be proud of.
 
Solitary said:
Dixie, that is such bullshit. What Roy Moore did was make one religion the official religion of the Alabama Supreme Court. What he did was allow one religious display and not allow another single thing to be displayed in the entire lobby.

What the SCOTUS sculptures recognize is the contributions of many individuals and many cultures in the creation of our laws.

What the SCOTUS friezes represent is a nation of many beliefs.

Your claims that the 10 Commandments are the basis for our laws is stretching the truth to the very limits.

"...they have listened to Atheist Socialist Communist scum buckets who want to destroy the Constitution and America, and like you, have completely bought into the notion that God has no place in our government. "

Dixie, you might try actually READING the US Constitution. What Roy Moore did was unconstitutional. That is a fact.
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Roy Moore never issued a single proclamation regarding the official religion of the Alabama Supreme Court, the State of Alabama, or his individual court room. The 10 Commandments are recognized by a number of religions, and in a variety of variations, are found in thousands of religions and cultures. There is no specific religion which the 10 Commandments belong to.

You have admitted yourself, the 10 Commandments as depicted in the SCOTUS, are indeed part of the basis for Western law. How you can now depart from that, and claim it is "stretching the truth to the limit" is beyond me.... are you a liar? How can the 10 Commandments both be a part of the basis for western law, AND it be stretching the truth that they are part of the basis for western law? It's an absolute contradiction!

And I have read the Constitution... I find nowhere it says that displays of the 10 Commandments are not constitutional. Perhaps you can post that exact phrase for me, because I would love to see where it says that! Now, it does say that Congress can pass no law respecting the establishment of religion, or denying the free expression, thereof. Is that what you use for your basis? Because, if it is, that doesn't say displaying a 10 Commandments monument is unconstitutional... in fact, it says that denying the display could indeed be deemed unconstitutional.
 
blackascoal said:
The only fact here is, as usual, you don't lnow what the hell you're talking about.

Crime has been going down since the 70's.

That is a fact.
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I would also argue with Dixie that if America is so morally decayed how comes the single #1 civic/social activity in America is attending a house of worship.

Many more Americans will attend a house of worship (Church, Synagogue, Islamic Temple) on a weekly basis then Americans who will attend movies, sporting events and concerts combined on the same weekly basis.
 
wrong motley. American culture is trying to villify human life itself, with the gaea/environmentalism movement. Elites are convincing inner party members to commit genocide on the proletariat without a second thought.
 
Dixie said:
Roy Moore never issued a single proclamation regarding the official religion of the Alabama Supreme Court, the State of Alabama, or his individual court room. The 10 Commandments are recognized by a number of religions, and in a variety of variations, are found in thousands of religions and cultures. There is no specific religion which the 10 Commandments belong to.

You have admitted yourself, the 10 Commandments as depicted in the SCOTUS, are indeed part of the basis for Western law. How you can now depart from that, and claim it is "stretching the truth to the limit" is beyond me.... are you a liar? How can the 10 Commandments both be a part of the basis for western law, AND it be stretching the truth that they are part of the basis for western law? It's an absolute contradiction!

And I have read the Constitution... I find nowhere it says that displays of the 10 Commandments are not constitutional. Perhaps you can post that exact phrase for me, because I would love to see where it says that! Now, it does say that Congress can pass no law respecting the establishment of religion, or denying the free expression, thereof. Is that what you use for your basis? Because, if it is, that doesn't say displaying a 10 Commandments monument is unconstitutional... in fact, it says that denying the display could indeed be deemed unconstitutional.
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The SCOTUS display is of NUMEROUS people and religions. The Roy Moore debacle was of a SINGLE DISPLAY. If you want to claim that they are the same thing, that is up to you. But it is NOT factual. Roy Moore made it the ONLY display, and SCOTUS made it PART of a display in which it is equal with a dozen or so other people. (FYI - the 10 Commandments are not displayed at SCOTUS, per se. The frieze is of Moses holding the 10 Commandments)


The 10 Commandments are from the Old Testament of the Bible. Christians and Jews have them as part of their faith. The 10 Commandments are used in Islam, but they are not exactly the same. In Islam they believe the 10 commandments were corrupted.

Other than those three religions, no one else claims the 10 commandments as part of their faith.
 
Wow, this is a surprise. I shut Dixie down, and instead of admitting he was wrong, he just pretends the debate never existed. This exact thing happened whenever I delivered the final blow to him on 1/3. Even though he's ALWAYS wrong, he NEVER admits he's wrong, even when he's clearly wrong he keeps talking, and whenever even he knows he's been PWNT he tries to pretend nothings happened.
 
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