An atheist philosophy of life, per Albert Camus

Hume said:
That would make Jesus a coward. And Socrates as well.
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Giving your life for other people, or for a higher principle is not considered suicide.

That's why Socrates, Jesus, and the soldier who willingly fell on a grenade to save friends are generally held in esteem
 
Cypress said:
Giving your life for other people, or for a higher principle is not considered suicide.

That's why Socrates, Jesus, and the soldier who willingly fell on a grenade to save friends are generally held in esteem
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Jesus was warned and could have lived to a natural death. Socrates chose death, similarly defying the government. Willful suicides.
 
Hume said:
Jesus was warned and could have lived to a natural death. Socrates chose death, similarly defying the government. Willful suicides.
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Your free to call it whatever you want.

Jesus and Socrates both made clear their deaths were based on a higher principle, something that would either benefit other people, or serve the cause of truth and integrity.

To me that is qualitatively different than the dude who jumps in front of a train because his girlfriend broke up with him.
 
Cypress said:
Your free to call it whatever you want.

Jesus and Socrates both made clear their deaths were based on a higher principle, something that would either benefit other people, or serve the cause of truth and integrity.

To me that is qualitatively different than the dude who jumps in front of a train because his girlfriend broke up with him.
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So, they both chose to be put to death.
 
Hume said:
Suicide is willful death.
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I think Socrates, Saint Paul, and Alexei Navalny would rather have not been arrested and killed by state authorities.
Being willing to die for your principles is what makes martyrdom qualitatively different than the guy who kills himself because his wife divorced him.
 
Cypress said:
The famous French Existentialist philosopher, Albert Camus, radicalized the question of whether life has any meaning.

Camus claims that the only fundamental philosophical question concerns whether one should commit suicide.

Behind this question is the concern that a meaningless (absurd) world might not be worth our living in.

Camus claims that life is absurd. A result is that all occurrences play out as if on a stage, devoid of reality or depth. This result turns out to be life’s “truth” for Camus.

Camus claims that true integrity involves living with absurdity and remaining open to the problems of absurdity.

Suicide becomes escapist and an act of cowardice.
Hope becomes delusional and equally escapist and cowardly.

Camus champions a continuing defiance, a heroic revolt in the face of life’s absurdity. Living as much as possible in the present is counseled—an anti-axial attitude.

If life is so lived, Camus believes that quantity of life will come to matter.




Source credit: Steven Erikson, Pomona College
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so he's pro-life and an atheist.

I guess pro-life is not necessarily a religous argument.

neither is the argument for morality, due to morality being rational.
 
Cypress said:
I think Socrates, Saint Paul, and Alexei Navalny would rather have not been arrested and killed by state authorities.
Being willing to die for your principles is what makes martyrdom qualitatively different than the guy who kills himself because his wife divorced him.
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Suicide is almost ALWAYS to end pain. Ending one's pain is every bit as good a reason for ending one's life as is "principle."
 
Ross Dolan said:
Suicide is almost ALWAYS to end pain. Ending one's pain is every bit as good a reason for ending one's life as is "principle."
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As for myself, I'm going to have to go with what medical coroners call suicide.

They are going to call a self inflicted gun shot by a depressed person a suicide.

I seriously don't think Alex Navalny, Socrates, or the US Marine who falls on a grenade to save buddies would be ruled suicides by medical coroners.
 
Cypress said:
As for myself, I'm going to have to go with what medical coroners call suicide.

They are going to call a self inflicted gun shot by a depressed person a suicide.

I seriously don't think Alex Navalny, Socrates, or the US Marine who falls on a grenade to save buddies would be ruled suicides by medical coroners.
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I agree with that last part, Cypress.

My comment had to do with the fact that so many people consider suicide to be something of a lower nature.

True suicides almost always are to end pain...physical or emotional.

There is a bit of "making her/him pay for causing me to do this" involved, but sometimes getting rid of the pain is more important than to continue to live. I feel sorry for people who make the move. Just wanted to suggest we not look down on people who take that way out.

(Never had anyone close do it...and I am very happy in my life, so it is not on my agenda. But I think there should be assisted suicide for people who want to end it all.)
 
Cypress said:
The famous French Existentialist philosopher, Albert Camus, radicalized the question of whether life has any meaning.

Camus claims that the only fundamental philosophical question concerns whether one should commit suicide.

Behind this question is the concern that a meaningless (absurd) world might not be worth our living in.

Camus claims that life is absurd. A result is that all occurrences play out as if on a stage, devoid of reality or depth. This result turns out to be life’s “truth” for Camus.

Camus claims that true integrity involves living with absurdity and remaining open to the problems of absurdity.

Suicide becomes escapist and an act of cowardice.
Hope becomes delusional and equally escapist and cowardly.

Camus champions a continuing defiance, a heroic revolt in the face of life’s absurdity. Living as much as possible in the present is counseled—an anti-axial attitude.

If life is so lived, Camus believes that quantity of life will come to matter.




Source credit: Steven Erikson, Pomona College
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Which is a conundrum: Why don't most atheists commit suicide? Life is pain. We all die in the end. Why preserve the pain?
 
Cypress said:
As for myself, I'm going to have to go with what medical coroners call suicide.

They are going to call a self inflicted gun shot by a depressed person a suicide.

I seriously don't think Alex Navalny, Socrates, or the US Marine who falls on a grenade to save buddies would be ruled suicides by medical coroners.
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Navalny was probably murdered. Socrates was forced suicide under a death sentence. Some say he refused efforts to escape. The Marine would be suicide just like a kamikaze is suicide although both cases were for a perceived greater good.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Navalny was probably murdered. Socrates was forced suicide under a death sentence. Some say he refused efforts to escape. The Marine would be suicide just like a kamikaze is suicide although both cases were for a perceived greater good.
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I would think the definition of suicide has to involve intent. I don't think Socrates or Saint Paul intended to die, and they would have rather continued their life. But they were presented with an impossible binary choice between death and corrupting their own purpose of life.
 
Cypress said:
I would think the definition of suicide has to involve intent. I don't think Socrates or Saint Paul intended to die, and they would have rather continued their life. But they were presented with an impossible binary choice between death and corrupting their own purpose of life.
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Agreed; intent to ends one life, but there are different reasons for doing so. The common one being to end pain be it physical or psychological. Socrates and Marines are different.
 
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