Another Blow Against the Nanny-State

Damocles said:
Hence you make it so they can make a case to a court who would be Pro-Tem Parentis...
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Damo, how would that work? Is a teenage girl, pregnant and scared, to be expected to be able to retain an attorney, on her own, hiding that from her parents? How is she going to know how to do this?
 
Darla said:
Damo, how would that work? Is a teenage girl, pregnant and scared, to be expected to be able to retain an attorney, on her own, hiding that from her parents? How is she going to know how to do this?
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SHould the government be assisting minors in deception of their own parents, based on the bigoted premise that parents are backward and should be rendered morally insignificant in the lives of their children through state sponsored lies?
 
Care4all said:
That's just plain bullshit Cypress....most girls WILL NOT tell their parents if they are young.

I didn't.... I was afraid to tell them I was pregnant........and my parents are wonderful, loving parents.... there was no fear of them hurting me, there was fear of them being disappointed with me....and as a teen, you don't think straight, that fear of disappointment over ruled me telling them, until 5 years later....until after I was married.

I don't think I was an exception to the rule at that young age...and I was 18 already but still living with them.

The only reason this was reversed is because they did not give an exception for the health of girl, I thought?

16 year olds will think even less "straight" than an 18 year old.

I have a problem that the government requires a permission slip to give your child aspirin, while a doctor performing an abortion on your child without notifying you is okay?

This is your child, your health insurance for your child will cover them if the abortion goes wrong or if you don't have insurance, your pocketbook will be responsible for your child's healthcare bills, you are still legally responsible for your child, it is your child.... IF YOUR CHILD IS UNDER 18, the parents should be notified....

The girl will need her parents MORE THAN EVER before, during and after this procedure....hiding it from them, just makes it harder to heal....and easy for one to just pack up the experience in to a small little package in her brain, only later to find the package is filled with dynomite, and ready to explode.

imho.

Care
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Care, you are proceeding from the premise that all children have parents that they can go to when they "need them more than ever".

My personal feeling is that most girls who have decent parents, this law wouldn't even affect. They're going to go to their parents. I didn't have sex when I was a teenager. (my mom and dad were both dems, my mom an actual lib, so my lack of teenage sexual expermentation must have been my "liberal upbringing"). But if I had had sex, and become pregnant, I wouldn't have had to give any thought to what the law was. I would have went to my mom, who would have gotten me an abortion, in fact, she would have nearly insisted on it, so as not to ruin my life. If something had happened to my mom, I could have went to my father, and he would have gotten me the abortion, and kept his own opinions to himself. (I don't think he would have wanted the abortion) If I wanted the child, I would have went to my father, who would have said, then you'll have it, and he was in the position to finance that.

The problem is, I'm well aware, I'm lucky. I had good parents. I wish everyone had good parents. But they don't. Those are the ones we need to protect.
 
Darla said:
Care, you are proceeding from the premise that all children have parents that they can go to when they "need them more than ever".

My personal feeling is that most girls who have decent parents, this law wouldn't even affect. They're going to go to their parents. I didn't have sex when I was a teenager. (my mom and dad were both dems, my mom an actual lib, so my lack of teenage sexual expermentation must have been my "liberal upbringing"). But if I had had sex, and become pregnant, I wouldn't have had to give any thought to what the law was. I would have went to my mom, who would have gotten me an abortion, in fact, she would have nearly insisted on it, so as not to ruin my life. If something had happened to my mom, I could have went to my father, and he would have gotten me the abortion, and kept his own opinions to himself. (I don't think he would have wanted the abortion) If I wanted the child, I would have went to my father, who would have said, then you'll have it, and he was in the position to finance that.

The problem is, I'm well aware, I'm lucky. I had good parents. I wish everyone had good parents. But they don't. Those are the ones we need to protect.
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So "good parents" = "Pro abortion" parents?
 
Porn is a legal product. We need to have the schools provide children with porn without the knowledge of their parents. Who are these parents to deny their children the pleasures of high gloss porno? They must be cut out of the loop. Family = racism.
 
AssHatZombie said:
So "good parents" = "Pro abortion" parents?
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Good parents are parents you can go to when you're in trouble, without fear of being beaten, punished or thrown out. I think my post made it pretty clear that my father was not "pro abortion", just that he was a rare man. He kept his own counsel and lived and let live. He believed we all had to make our own mistakes, and if you asked his advice he'd give it to you, but if you decided to do the opposite, he'd support you, and if you ended up making the wrong choice, he'd never say, I told you so. He'd just say "how can I help"?
 
Darla said:
Good parents are parents you can go to when you're in trouble, without fear of being beaten, punished or thrown out. I think my post made it pretty clear that my father was not "pro abortion", just that he was a rare man. He kept his own counsel and lived and let live. He believed we all had to make our own mistakes, and if you asked his advice he'd give it to you, but if you decided to do the opposite, he'd support you, and if you ended up making the wrong choice, he'd never say, I told you so. He'd just say "how can I help"?
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So good dads withhold moral guidance from their children?
 
AssHatZombie said:
So good dads withhold moral guidance from their children?
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If that's what you need to call it sure.

He taught me not to judge others, not to care what others thought of me as long as I believed what I was doing was right, he taught me about bravery when he threw someone out of our house in the middle of a party, someone kind of like you, who was jew-bashing and saying that there was "another side" to the holocaust. He never threatened me about what he would do to me if I did drugs, but told me many stories of what happened to kids in his Irish-Brooklyn neighborhood who did do drugs. He taught me to keep my own counsel, and that I was going to do wrong things and make mistakes, but I would learn from them, and I did. He made me a secure child, who felt no jealousy the day he came to my school for a 3rd grade dad's day thing, and a little girl who either had no father or whose father wasnt' there, grabbed onto to my father, and he spent time with her and brought her into our group. I remember being very proud because my dad was the tallest and most striking looking dad there, and I could see why this little girl picked him, but I knew that i was his girl, and I welcomed her into our group.

As life went on he taught me a lot about money and those who worship it.

Moral guidance is not about absolute rules. Oh, that's something else he taught me.
 
AssHatZombie said:
Porn is a legal product. We need to have the schools provide children with porn without the knowledge of their parents. Who are these parents to deny their children the pleasures of high gloss porno? They must be cut out of the loop. Family = racism.
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Since this is totally "OFF-TOPIC" I assume it is also Sarcastic.
 
AssHatZombie said:
So "good parents" = "Pro abortion" parents?
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Uh, no.

Good parents help their daughter, communicate with her, and support her. And educate her, evaluate all the options with her, and ultmately support her decisions about her own body.

A bad parent would force a girl to carry an embryo to term. An evil parent would use the government to give them the backing of law to force their daughter to carry a fetus against her own wishes.
 
Care4all said:
That's just plain bullshit Cypress....most girls WILL NOT tell their parents if they are young.

I didn't.... I was afraid to tell them I was pregnant........and my parents are wonderful, loving parents.... there was no fear of them hurting me, there was fear of them being disappointed with me....and as a teen, you don't think straight, that fear of disappointment over ruled me telling them, until 5 years later....until after I was married.

I don't think I was an exception to the rule at that young age...and I was 18 already but still living with them.

The only reason this was reversed is because they did not give an exception for the health of girl, I thought?

16 year olds will think even less "straight" than an 18 year old.

I have a problem that the government requires a permission slip to give your child aspirin, while a doctor performing an abortion on your child without notifying you is okay?

This is your child, your health insurance for your child will cover them if the abortion goes wrong or if you don't have insurance, your pocketbook will be responsible for your child's healthcare bills, you are still legally responsible for your child, it is your child.... IF YOUR CHILD IS UNDER 18, the parents should be notified....

The girl will need her parents MORE THAN EVER before, during and after this procedure....hiding it from them, just makes it harder to heal....and easy for one to just pack up the experience in to a small little package in her brain, only later to find the package is filled with dynomite, and ready to explode.

imho.

Care
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Care, I'm sorry your fear of dissapointing your parents was so enourmous, that you felt like you couldn't talk to them. Also, maybe in the 1960s and 1970s, the stigma of a pregnant teenager was also that much greater.

I can't relate to that experience. My stepson's girlfriend got pregnant, and while it was difficult for them to bring it up to us, they knew that we wouldn't judge them, or harrass them. Let alone, beat them. It wasn't even an issue. and they knew that whatever happened, we would be their to support whatever decision they made.

As Darla said, they certainly are cases where it might not be in a girl's interest to go to her parents. And to expect a young girl to navigate the court and legal system to get a "waiver" from seeking parental consent, is just a smokescreen. I'm convinced that 99% of girls with healthy, normal parents these days, have no problem communicating, and have no fear of repercusions from their parents. Government doesn't need to pull a "terri schiavo", and legislate to "protect" those families.
 
Cypress said:
Uh, no.

Good parents help their daughter, communicate with her, and support her. And educate her, evaluate all the options with her, and ultmately support her decisions about her own body.

A bad parent would force a girl to carry an embryo to term. An evil parent would use the government to give them the backing of law to force their daughter to carry a fetus against her own wishes.
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Or maybe they would just give other information about adoptions and such, and express their belief that killing is wrong, but still ultimately respect her wishes. We can only speculate as to what they would do if they're lied to and left out of the loop. And that's what's sick here, deceiving parents about their children's health. That's what's evil here.
 
AssHatZombie said:
Or maybe they would just give other information about adoptions and such, and express their belief that killing is wrong, but still ultimately respect her wishes. We can only speculate as to what they would do if they're lied to and left out of the loop. And that's what's sick here, deceiving parents about their children's health. That's what's evil here.
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Asshat: Or maybe they would just give other information about adoptions and such, and express their belief that killing is wrong, but still ultimately respect her wishes


That's exactly what I said in that last post:


Cypress: Good parents help their daughter, communicate with her, and support her. And educate her, evaluate all the options with her, and ultmately support her decisions about her own body.
 
Cypress said:
Asshat: Or maybe they would just give other information about adoptions and such, and express their belief that killing is wrong, but still ultimately respect her wishes


That's exactly what I said in that last post:


Cypress: Good parents help their daughter, communicate with her, and support her. And educate her, evaluate all the options with her, and ultmately support her decisions about her own body.
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So when SHOULD parents be left out of the loop and lied to? We're NOT on the same page.
 
AssHatZombie said:
I'm isolating what this is really about: Pro abortion zealots seeking to cut parents out of their children's lives if the parent disagrees with abortion.
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I don't think so. Both comments appeared to be incideous attempts as biasness. and the above comment seems to prove it. this has nothing to do with pro or con abortion.
 
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