Another Blow Against the Nanny-State

[Damocles]

Can only help a good parent. Just because you're not going to beat your daughter, call her a whore and throw her out Damo, doesn't mean that no father will. Probably, your daughter isn't going to get pregnant at 15, and this won't be an issue. Don't you think that teenage pregnancy tends to be higher among abused or neglected children?

So you envision an organization like planned parenthood needing to have lawyers on staff to be able to go to court in these cases. Who is going to pay for this?

Maybe it's workable, but I think there are more inherent problems there than you acknowledge.

No, I picture some paperwork that they can fill out and that child services can look into the situation.

While you see problems, not notifying can cause far more problems as we have spoken of earlier.

 

[Cancel7]

Seriously. "They might still have complications" is your reason not to have notification laws?

Tragedies happen so we should never notify anybody? That is your argument against notification laws? Far more kids would have the support of their parents to help them through a tragedy rather than standing against it alone.

Care is making the case that because on a rare occasion, a girl might hemmorage after an abortion, we should have parental notification laws. First of all, i don't think you can make a restrictive law, based on a few rare happenings. Second of all, I don't believe the law would prevent one hemmorage.

 

[evince]

I bet you felt they would be dissapointed in your sexual activity.

This is part of the problem.

The only way to prevent this is to tell your kids that sex is normal and natural.

Tell them the consequences and how to prevent disease and unwanted pregnancy.

Tell them the emotional impact of having sex before you are ready to deal with the emotional impacts.

Nature designed 15 year olds to have sex.

Our society asks them to NOT have sex.

We can pretend that they wont but have to face the facts that many will.

If it were dealt with this way by all parents I would understand forcing parental notice.

The world can be a very dark place and until it isnt I think the person whos body it is needs to tell only who they choose.

 

[Damocles]

Care is making the case that because on a rare occasion, a girl might hemmorage after an abortion, we should have parental notification laws. First of all, i don't think you can make a restrictive law, based on a few rare happenings. Second of all, I don't believe the law would prevent one hemmorage.

Notification is not restrictive. That is ridiculous. My daughter can't get a band-aid without my okay at school, but she can get internal surgery that may cause complications that I won't know about?

Notification laws are not that restrictive. And you don't refuse a law because of the rare cases... I think somebody recently made this argument.

 

[Cancel7]

No, I picture some paperwork that they can fill out and that child services can look into the situation.

While you see problems, not notifying can cause far more problems as we have spoken of earlier.

Child services. Jesus. I don't know what it's like in Colarado, and maybe you have a far less overworked system than we do here. But here, kids are starved to death or beaten to death, after, they have already been brought to the attention of child services. Last year here, in a house that was already under investigation by child services, a seven year old girl was tied to a chair and beaten to death, by a "man" (her "mother's" boyfriend) because the poor child was starving and took a yogurt out of the refrigerator.

Damo, child services is underfunded, understaffed, and overwhelmed. I wish that it was at least as hard to have a child as it is to get driver's license, but it's not.

 

[Cancel7]

Notification is not restrictive. That is ridiculous. My daughter can't get a band-aid without my okay at school, but she can get internal surgery that may cause complications that I won't know about?

Notification laws are not that restrictive. And you don't refuse a law because of the rare cases... I think somebody recently made this argument.

Child abuse is far more common than hemmoraging that causes permanent damage after an abortion.

You are missing my point. Chances are, your daughter isn't going to get pregnant and not come to you.

 

[Cancel7]

I bet you felt they would be dissapointed in your sexual activity.

This is part of the problem.

The only way to prevent this is to tell your kids that sex is normal and natural.

Tell them the consequences and how to prevent disease and unwanted pregnancy.

Tell them the emotional impact of having sex before you are ready to deal with the emotional impacts.

Nature designed 15 year olds to have sex.

Our society asks them to NOT have sex.

We can pretend that they wont but have to face the facts that many will.

If it were dealt with this way by all parents I would understand forcing parental notice.

The world can be a very dark place and until it isnt I think the person whos body it is needs to tell only who they choose.

I don't see 15 year olds as ready to have sex, personally. But you make a good point that openess is the best way, and that includes both sexual education, knowledge of birth control, AND, as you say, understanding of the emotional consequences of sex, especially for young girls.

 

[Damocles]

Child services. Jesus. I don't know what it's like in Colarado, and maybe you have a far less overworked system than we do here. But here, kids are starved to death or beaten to death, after, they have already been brought to the attention of child services. Last year here, in a house that was already under investigation by child services, a seven year old girl was tied to a chair and beaten to death, by a "man" (her "mother's" boyfriend) because the poor child was starving and took a yogurt out of the refrigerator.

Damo, child services is underfunded, understaffed, and overwhelmed. I wish that it was at least as hard to have a child as it is to get driver's license, but it's not.

So, it gives incentive to fix it, even to those who would normally reject such.

 

[Cancel7]

So, it gives incentive to fix it, even to those who would normally reject such.

Well, if you're going to agree to overhaul child protective services, properly fund and staff it so that it can actually do something in these terrible, inhuman, cases, then we could come to an agreement.

Too bad, we're not the two in charge of coming to an agreement.

 

[Litmus]

Care is making the case that because on a rare occasion, a girl might hemmorage after an abortion, we should have parental notification laws. First of all, i don't think you can make a restrictive law, based on a few rare happenings. Second of all, I don't believe the law would prevent one hemmorage.

And you're making the case that because of the the rare occasion a child is forced by parents to have a child against her will, there should therefore be no parental notification laws. We all have arguments. Some are good. Some are bad.

 

[Litmus]

"The government will kill your grandchildren and you will comply. Resistance is futile."

 

[Cypress]

You need to make up your mind, which postion you support. Not ten mintues ago, you agreed with me that the ultimate choice was up to the teenager, not the parents:

Asshat: Or maybe they would just give other information about adoptions and such, and express their belief that killing is wrong, but still ultimately respect her wishes.


If you want to pass a law that forces a girl to talk to her parent, and seek their advice, then your on the wrong thread.

This thread is about parental consent laws. Not parental "advice" laws.

Consent means the parents have the power of government and law, to force a girl to carry an embryo to term, if they so wish.

You yourself, said the ultimate choice rests with the girl. NOT the parents. So, parents do not have a "consent" right, in determining if a girl gets an abortion.


Look, if you want a law that forces teenagers to talk to their parents, to seek advice that's fine. That's not a consent law. But, a government law forcing people to "talk" to one another is about the stupidest and silliest use of government big-brother power I can imagine.

Maybe I missed it, but you never answered, Ass.

On the one hand you say the ultimate choice is up to the teenager, on the other hand, you appear to be advocating parental consent laws.

Which is it?

If you want a consent law, you effectively want the parents to have veto power over the teenager...you want them to have the power to force her to carry and embryo to term.


If, on the other hand you simply want parents to be able to give advice and opinions to a pregnant daughter, that's a family matter.

If your kid is afraid to talk to you about a pregnancy, that is a reflection on YOUR bad parenting skills. It's NOT a reflection on the need for government laws forcing your kid to come talk to you for advice.


This is real easy...REAL easy. For crappy parents, take notes:


Basic Parenting 101:

"Listen, my beloved daughter: doing drugs, doing sex and getting pregnant are huge mistakes at your age. But, if you do happen to get pregnant, please know that you can talk to me about it. please know that I love you, I will never judge you, and I won't get angry."

 

[Litmus]

Maybe I missed it, but you never answered, Ass.

On the one hand you say the ultimate choice is up to the teenager, on the other hand, you appear to be advocating parental consent laws.

Which is it?

If you want a consent law, you effectively want the parents to have veto power over the teenager...you want them to have the power to force her to carry and embryo to term.


If, on the other hand you simply want parents to be able to give advice and opinions to a pregnant daughter, that's a family matter.

If your kid is afraid to talk to you about a pregnancy, that is a reflection on YOUR bad parenting skills. It's NOT a reflection on the need for government laws forcing your kid to come talk to you for advice.


This is real easy...REAL easy. For crappy parents, take notes:


Basic Parenting 101:

"Listen, my beloved daughter: doing drugs, doing sex and getting pregnant are huge mistakes at your age. But, if you do happen to get pregnant, please know that you can talk to me about it. please know that I love you, I will never judge you, and I won't get angry."

I guess I would be happy with a notification but not consent law, in the final analysis, just so if she starts bleeding out the parents will understand to check her spotting status. I'd settle for that.