Another Blow Against the Nanny-State

AssHatZombie said:
So when SHOULD parents be left out of the loop and lied to? We're NOT on the same page.
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Nobody's trying to cut anybody out of anybody's lives.

Why do you feel you need to use Government, to force girl's to talk to their parents? This is exactly the type of Big-Brother Government interference in family matters (aka, Terri Schiavo) that turned much of america off to the wingnut theocratic agenda.

In normal families, the girl is going to talk to the parent anyway. You don't need big brother making laws mandating it.
 
Cypress said:
Nobody's trying to cut anybody out of anybody's lives.

Why do you feel you need to use Government, to force girl's to talk to their parents? This is exactly the type of Big-Brother Government interference in family matters (aka, Terri Schiavo) that turned much of america off to the wingnut theocratic agenda.

In normal families, the girl is going to talk to the parent anyway. You don't need big brother making laws mandating it.
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All medical procedures require parental consent. You're the one wanting to undo normal priorities for your pro-death agenda.
 
AssHatZombie said:
All medical procedures require parental consent. You're the one wanting to undo normal priorities for your pro-death agenda.
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You need to make up your mind, which postion you support. Not ten mintues ago, you agreed with me that the ultimate choice was up to the teenager, not the parents:

Asshat: Or maybe they would just give other information about adoptions and such, and express their belief that killing is wrong, but still ultimately respect her wishes.


If you want to pass a law that forces a girl to talk to her parent, and seek their advice, then your on the wrong thread.

This thread is about parental consent laws. Not parental "advice" laws.

Consent means the parents have the power of government and law, to force a girl to carry an embryo to term, if they so wish.

You yourself, said the ultimate choice rests with the girl. NOT the parents. So, parents do not have a "consent" right, in determining if a girl gets an abortion.


Look, if you want a law that forces teenagers to talk to their parents, to seek advice that's fine. That's not a consent law. But, a government law forcing people to "talk" to one another is about the stupidest and silliest use of government big-brother power I can imagine.
 
AssHatZombie said:
No. It's designed to keep parents from interfering with nanny state abortions.
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This policy is designed to save lives.

Girls who couldnt get an abortion without their parents consent would (and did) use extreme and illegal methods to abort.

You can play moral cop all you want but what it ended in was dead kids and no baby anyway.

Sometimes in life you just have to make the BEST decision and face the fact that the world is NOT as you wish it would be.
 
Desh said:
This policy is designed to save lives.

Girls who couldnt get an abortion without their parents consent would (and did) would use extreme and illegal methods to abort.

You can play moral cop all you want but what it ended in was dead kids and no baby anyway.

Sometimes in life you just have to make the BEST decision and face the fact that the world isnt NOT as you wish it would be.
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No. It's designed to circumvent rightful parental involvement to pursue a pro death agenda.
 
Desh said:
Are you trying to prove you cannot understand a complex problem?

Well Done!
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No. It's just that your attempts to reframe the issue as something else are failing.
Parents should not be deceived or intentionally kept ignorant of their chilren's condition because a few zealous social engineers wish to normalize infanticide.
 
So you perfer dead kids instead of live ones who dont tell their parents?

OK now we know how you really feel.
 
Desh said:
This policy is designed to save lives.

Girls who couldnt get an abortion without their parents consent would (and did) use extreme and illegal methods to abort.

You can play moral cop all you want but what it ended in was dead kids and no baby anyway.

Sometimes in life you just have to make the BEST decision and face the fact that the world is NOT as you wish it would be.
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Desh, this law HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH NEEDING THE PARENT'S CONSENT does it?

The law is about notifying the parents of a minor. The Parents can not legally stop them from having one? That is not what the law says is it?

Care
 
Its how the reality plays out.

we can deal with the real consequences or Pretend.

I perfer to deal with what the real effects are.
 
I'm sorry Desh, but I believe that if you had a daughter that was 16 that wanted an abortion and through no fault of your good parenting, she doesn't tell you, but then she goes through major hemoraging from the abortion, which happened to me, and had to be brought back in to emergency care to stop the hemoraging..... you would have wanted to know about it. You would have brought her to your own gyno instead of her having to face the cattle line at the local abortion clinic.

I know or better said I feel that you would be very upset that you were not notified.
 
I would consider it as much my failure as the clinics.

My daughter would know about birth control and would have my full support in her decision about her own body.
 
Darla said:
Damo, how would that work? Is a teenage girl, pregnant and scared, to be expected to be able to retain an attorney, on her own, hiding that from her parents? How is she going to know how to do this?
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No. However the provider certainly would have access to make the case for them.

Notification laws do not necessarily hurt the girls either. Knowing what horrors your child may be going through can only help a parent regardless of whether you agree with their decisions.
 
Desh said:
I would consider it as much my failure as the clinics.

My daughter would know about birth control and would have my full support in her decision about her own body.
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Yes, and many parents do feel it was them that failed...my parents still do, they feel saddened that I did not feel I could come to them for help.

I don't blame them though.... I was young, and was not thinking straight, let the hormones of pregnancy get to me, I guess, and those feelings that just come with youth.

Just because YOU think that your child would tell you, doesn't mean that they would desh.

And you never answered the hemoraging question or comment if your daughter almost died from this abortion yet you were never notified of the surgery beforehand when she was a minor?

Parents should be notified if they are under the legal age, and the parents are still responsible for them. This does not mean the parents can stop the abortion, because by law already, they can NOT.

The reason this law was ruled unconstitutional is because they did not have an exception for the health of the mother, from what I gathered?

care
 
Care4all said:
Yes, and many parents do feel it was them that failed...my parents still do, they feel saddened that I did not feel I could come to them for help.

I don't blame them though.... I was young, and was not thinking straight, let the hormones of pregnancy get to me, I guess, and those feelings that just come with youth.

Just because YOU think that your child would tell you, doesn't mean that they would desh.

And you never answered the hemoraging question or comment if your daughter almost died from this abortion yet you were never notified of the surgery beforehand when she was a minor?

Parents should be notified if they are under the legal age, and the parents are still responsible for them. This does not mean the parents can stop the abortion, because by law already, they can NOT.

The reason this law was ruled unconstitutional is because they did not have an exception for the health of the mother, from what I gathered?

care
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Child abuse is against the law. Therefore, no children are abused.

If only.

The particular situation you describe is a tragic one, but we cannot make laws based on it. It's rare. And parental notification would not guarantee that no young girl is going to suffer complications from an abortion anyway. All surgical procedures carry that risk. So does childbirth, as I'm sure you know. What if a young girl hides her pregnancy from her parents, gives birth, and dies during the birth? What if a young girl doesn't hide her pregnancy from her parents, gives birth, and dies during the birth? In both cases, it's a tragedy. Tragedies happen. No matter what you do, or how many laws you make, tragedies do occur.
 
AssHatZombie said:
No. It's just that your attempts to reframe the issue as something else are failing.
Parents should not be deceived or intentionally kept ignorant of their chilren's condition because a few zealous social engineers wish to normalize infanticide.
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That is Garbage. That is NOT what this was about. It was a poorly executed attempt to protect minor mothers to be.
 
Darla said:
Child abuse is against the law. Therefore, no children are abused.

If only.

The particular situation you describe is a tragic one, but we cannot make laws based on it. It's rare. And parental notification would not guarantee that no young girl is going to suffer complications from an abortion anyway. All surgical procedures carry that risk. So does childbirth, as I'm sure you know. What if a young girl hides her pregnancy from her parents, gives birth, and dies during the birth? What if a young girl doesn't hide her pregnancy from her parents, gives birth, and dies during the birth? In both cases, it's a tragedy. Tragedies happen. No matter what you do, or how many laws you make, tragedies do occur.
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Seriously. "They might still have complications" is your reason not to have notification laws?

Tragedies happen so we should never notify anybody? That is your argument against notification laws? Far more kids would have the support of their parents to help them through a tragedy rather than standing against it alone.
 
Damocles said:
No. However the provider certainly would have access to make the case for them.

Notification laws do not necessarily hurt the girls either. Knowing what horrors your child may be going through can only help a parent regardless of whether you agree with their decisions.
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Can only help a good parent. Just because you're not going to beat your daughter, call her a whore and throw her out Damo, doesn't mean that no father will. Probably, your daughter isn't going to get pregnant at 15, and this won't be an issue. Don't you think that teenage pregnancy tends to be higher among abused or neglected children?

So you envision an organization like planned parenthood needing to have lawyers on staff to be able to go to court in these cases. Who is going to pay for this?

Maybe it's workable, but I think there are more inherent problems there than you acknowledge.
 
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