APP - Hypothetical Scenario for Thinkers

... clearly you're going to make some retarded argument spun off of the watchmaker theory against evolution as soon as someone says they had to be designed.

The point, I think, is that the point Dixie is itching to make here is absolutely retarded. If I went to a desert and found a refrigerator sitting there I'd have to be retarded to think it evolved and wasn't made by man. Machines aren't subject to evolutionary forces. They have to be designed. That's not true for biological systems.

Dixie, we all know your purpose for making this thread, and it is not a good argument at all. Your essentially saying that if we went to a planet that had all machine life it would prove the existence of God - but there is no such planet so it's really useless for you to argue this and doesn't support your point.

So obviously god made thoe machines and do they have souls and will go to heaven?
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First of all, this is posted on the APP board, so I would appreciate it if you would stop calling me names like "retard" and saying I am "retarded" because that is offensive to me and a violation of this boards policies. If you can't debate this in a civilized manner, I am sure a ban can be arranged. Thanks

Next, I would like to point out, I have presented NO argument. I posed a hypothetical scenario with a series of questions, and I objectively asked for answers. There are no right or wrong answers here, it is merely an examination of thought. I have not mentioned God or a Creator, I have not mentioned a Watchmaker or any analogy of the sort. Let's please stick to what I posted and the presentation as it was made, and stop trying to infer intent and meaning that isn't there. if you have an opinion, present it, but leave your insults and indignation at the door, and remember which forum you are in.
 
but there is no such planet so it's really useless for you to argue this and doesn't support your point.
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Please present your proof that no such planet exists in the universe. Also, let's clarify once more, this is not an "argument" it is a hypothetical scenario, and there is no relative "point" inferred by the scenario presented.
 
It's hard to draw a conclusion based on the limited data provided, but if they were machines by our current definitions of "machine," sure, you could say that something created them.

Is this the "a ha!" moment, where we find out that this is exactly like organic life on earth?
 
maybe it's the moment he tells us that humans are infinitely more complex than machines, and if we are to say that something less complex than us must have had a creator, than we too must have had a creator.
 
Onceler said:
It's hard to draw a conclusion based on the limited data provided, but if they were machines by our current definitions of "machine," sure, you could say that something created them.

Is this the "a ha!" moment, where we find out that this is exactly like organic life on earth?
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How did you determine they were created?
 
Dixie said:
How did you determine they were created?
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Like I said, it's pretty limited data you're presenting. Our current definition of "machine" implies something that was built or put together in some way, and is made of inorganic parts.

Are the "machines" we find made of organic material? In a sense, the human body can be viewed as a machine of sorts; do you mean something organic, or made of inorganic materials?
 
Onceler said:
Like I said, it's pretty limited data you're presenting. Our current definition of "machine" implies something that was built or put together in some way, and is made of inorganic parts.

Are the "machines" we find made of organic material? In a sense, the human body can be viewed as a machine of sorts; do you mean something organic, or made of inorganic materials?
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Both. The machines consist of what we recognize as "organic" materials, but also what we recognize as "inorganic" material, as well as some materials we are not familiar with at all. Keep in mind, this is a different planet which may contain elements we have not discovered on Earth or even in our own solar system yet. There is also the possibility of physics we don't yet comprehend or understand in play. Yes, there is limited data, that is why this is so perplexing and problematic.
 
Our current definition of "machine" implies something that was built or put together in some way...
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Not necessarily, remember you just said the human body could be considered a machine. A machine is any device that uses energy to perform some activity.
 
Dixie said:
Both. The machines consist of what we recognize as "organic" materials, but also what we recognize as "inorganic" material, as well as some materials we are not familiar with at all. Keep in mind, this is a different planet which may contain elements we have not discovered on Earth or even in our own solar system yet. There is also the possibility of physics we don't yet comprehend or understand in play. Yes, there is limited data, that is why this is so perplexing and problematic.
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With so many variables at play, it would be impossible to draw anything conclusive from your scenario. When you said "machines" originally, it didn't really conjure up organic material; once you add that to the mix, virtually anything is possible, and evolution could certainly be in the mix.

I'd love to conclude something, but there is not enough information. Scientists could study the machine/organisms for months or years, on that planet, and still possibly not be able to draw any reasonable conclusions.
 
Dixie said:
Remember, this is a hypothetical scenario 500 years in the future.

I have one word for you.... Wormholes!
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There are some theoretical systems that allow travel faster than the speed of light, but most physicists doubt that it works, because FTL travel basically = time travel, which would seriously muck the universe up. If it is possible, then wormholes would definitely be one of the greatest engineering feats of all time, and I think it'd take a little bit more than 500 years.

People want FTL travel because it would be so awesome, but it's simply a lot muckier than most people think.
 
Grind said:
nearest star though is only 4 light years away. who says it has to be 2 million light years away?
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He said galaxy; I meant to put galaxy.

Interstellar travel is definitely possible within 500 years; we could have interstellar travelers within our lifetime if we really wanted it.
 
Watermark said:
There are some theoretical systems that allow travel faster than the speed of light, but most physicists doubt that it works, because FTL travel basically = time travel, which would seriously muck the universe up. If it is possible, then wormholes would definitely be one of the greatest engineering feats of all time, and I think it'd take a little bit more than 500 years.

People want FTL travel because it would be so awesome, but it's simply a lot muckier than most people think.
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I don't know, look at the advancements in travel technology just over the past 100 years... 1/5 the time I am talking... I don't think ANYTHING is impossible. But of course, if physicists doubt it works, that means it has been proven impossible already, correct?
 
Dixie said:
I don't know, look at the advancements in travel technology just over the past 100 years... 1/5 the time I am talking... I don't think ANYTHING is impossible. But of course, if physicists doubt it works, that means it has been proven impossible already, correct?
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What would is more likely to happen, dixie: FTL travel, or building solar panels around the entire sun to collect all the energy in the star system?

The second one. And I don't think anyone would suggest that the second one is going to happen in 500 years, but everyone seems to think that FTL is a natural advancement that is bound to happen. It's not.

The mere fact that technology advances doesn't mean we'll have FTL in 500 years. Technology hits brick walls and reaches limits that are impossible to cross. FTL is probably never going to happen.
 
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Watermark said:
What would is more likely to happen, dixie: FTL travel, or building solar panels around the entire sun to collect all the energy in the star system?

The second one. And I don't think anyone would suggest that the second one is going to happen in 500 years, but everyone seems to think that FTL is a natural advancement that is bound to happen. It's not.

The mere fact that technology advances doesn't mean we'll have FTL in 500 years. Technology hits brick walls and reaches limits that are impossible to cross. FTL is probably never going to happen.
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LOL... They once said the same thing about space travel.
 
According to some predictions of 40 years ago we should be living in a jetsonesque society today. auto driving cars, jetpacks to go shopping. Colony on the moon, on mars, etc. With nuclear power so plentiful it would be practically free.
 
Dixie said:
First of all, this is posted on the APP board, so I would appreciate it if you would stop calling me names like "retard" and saying I am "retarded" because that is offensive to me and a violation of this boards policies. If you can't debate this in a civilized manner, I am sure a ban can be arranged. Thanks

Next, I would like to point out, I have presented NO argument. I posed a hypothetical scenario with a series of questions, and I objectively asked for answers. There are no right or wrong answers here, it is merely an examination of thought. I have not mentioned God or a Creator, I have not mentioned a Watchmaker or any analogy of the sort. Let's please stick to what I posted and the presentation as it was made, and stop trying to infer intent and meaning that isn't there. if you have an opinion, present it, but leave your insults and indignation at the door, and remember which forum you are in.
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No, name calling is still very much within the rules. [badword O_O]
 
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