APP - Are Police, Fire Departments Socialist?

Annie said:
I agree with water, sewage, roads. I can see the benefits to government subsidies in the past for railway lines, utility lines. The first 2, water and sewage obviously keep people healthy and able to be productive. The rest have to do with the costs of transporting goods and mobility of information. the jobs part sounds like the difference between communism and other forms? The water sounds more like a property issue?

The 'Joe Story' is just a silly bunch of nonsense, but I'm certain you know that the liberal tree huggers weren't around for the building of the aqueducts. But if it makes you feel warm and fuzzy, go for it.
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Consider it like a parable. Besides, the aqueducts merely rerouted the water. There was no quality testing.

However, you did hit the mark with "The first 2, water and sewage obviously keep people healthy and able to be productive."

If keeping people healthy and productive is a good thing then universal medical has to be a good thing as that's precisely what it does. When people try to differentiate between "general well-being" and "individual well-being" what constitutes the well-being of a country more than the wellness of it's citizens?
 
apple0154 said:
Consider it like a parable. Besides, the aqueducts merely rerouted the water. There was no quality testing.

However, you did hit the mark with "The first 2, water and sewage obviously keep people healthy and able to be productive."

If keeping people healthy and productive is a good thing then universal medical has to be a good thing as that's precisely what it does. When people try to differentiate between "general well-being" and "individual well-being" what constitutes the well-being of a country more than the wellness of it's citizens?
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Water and sewage aren't free.
You pay for how much water you use.
It isn't a rate, where everyone pays the same amount.
 
USFREEDOM911 said:
UH; Joe also has to pay his monthly waterbill, like everyone else, or face the consequence of having the water supply shut off.
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That's true but he is not obliged to have water. He can go to a river and fill a bucket.

That is the difference between Socialism and government services especially when people bring up past examples of Socialism. It is primarily the restrictions and government control which enter the conversation.
 
apple0154 said:
That's true but he is not obliged to have water. He can go to a river and fill a bucket.

That is the difference between Socialism and government services especially when people bring up past examples of Socialism. It is primarily the restrictions and government control which enter the conversation.
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That's his choice, so if that's what he wants to do; go for it.
You seem to be suggesting that he should just get his water, from the utilities company, for free.
 
apple0154 said:
Consider it like a parable. Besides, the aqueducts merely rerouted the water. There was no quality testing.

However, you did hit the mark with "The first 2, water and sewage obviously keep people healthy and able to be productive."

If keeping people healthy and productive is a good thing then universal medical has to be a good thing as that's precisely what it does. When people try to differentiate between "general well-being" and "individual well-being" what constitutes the well-being of a country more than the wellness of it's citizens?
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I disagree with your extrapolation. Water is necessary to life, we can agree on that I hope. It's also one of the basics that can be polluted rather easily. Thus providing for a clean source is in the best interests of all.

It's not the realm of government to care for all, regardless of the individual's choices. Sounds harsh to the modern ear, but so does the reality that some people choose to do things not in their best interest. We shouldn't have to bear their burden, when they could do so if they chose to. Now for the weakest or incapacitated? Yes, within reason. I've no problem with helping provide care for children or elderly that have no one else. I do have issues with how it's paid for.
 
USFREEDOM911 said:
Water and sewage aren't free.
You pay for how much water you use.
It isn't a rate, where everyone pays the same amount.
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Excellent point! I was referring to the infrastructure though, not the delivery system rates. In an earlier post I wrote on how public building projects were generally paid by special assessments on property bills. I think that an equitable way, with an end date attached. That assessment is gone at the end point.

When did the feds do something like that? Which again brings me to one of my beliefs that the best government is least, but of all governments the local is most responsive and accountable.
 
Annie said:
Excellent point! I was referring to the infrastructure though, not the delivery system rates. In an earlier post I wrote on how public building projects were generally paid by special assessments on property bills. I think that an equitable way, with an end date attached. That assessment is gone at the end point.

When did the feds do something like that? Which again brings me to one of my beliefs that the best government is least, but of all governments the local is most responsive and accountable.
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I don't have a problem with that; but Apple trying to equate a Utility Company and the service provided, to that of some kind of socialism, is asinine.
 
USFREEDOM911 said:
That's his choice, so if that's what he wants to do; go for it.
You seem to be suggesting that he should just get his water, from the utilities company, for free.
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Noooo. However, I do believe people should be allowed a certain amount of water for free. Being a commodity that is easily wasted some way has to be utilized to encourage conservation.
 
apple0154 said:
Noooo. However, I do believe people should be allowed a certain amount of water for free. Being a commodity that is easily wasted some way has to be utilized to encourage conservation.
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The public parks have water fountains.
 
Annie said:
I disagree with your extrapolation. Water is necessary to life, we can agree on that I hope. It's also one of the basics that can be polluted rather easily. Thus providing for a clean source is in the best interests of all.

It's not the realm of government to care for all, regardless of the individual's choices. Sounds harsh to the modern ear, but so does the reality that some people choose to do things not in their best interest. We shouldn't have to bear their burden, when they could do so if they chose to. Now for the weakest or incapacitated? Yes, within reason. I've no problem with helping provide care for children or elderly that have no one else. I do have issues with how it's paid for.
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Many people contract hypertension and diabetes. For those who have not contributed to their illness, obesity, for example, should the government provide free medication?
 
USFREEDOM911 said:
Just let your liberal ideals keep you warm.
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Oh, they do. Seeing the health care bill pass certainly resulted in a warm feeling. I'm sure letting the tax cuts expire that will result in another warm feeling. I suppose, in a sense, one could say Obama is clean energy. :cof1:
 
USFREEDOM911 said:
I don't have a problem with that; but Apple trying to equate a Utility Company and the service provided, to that of some kind of socialism, is asinine.
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In some places the water is government controlled. There is no "water company" like there is an electric company. The bill for the water meter is sent to the government, part of a tax.
 
apple0154 said:
Oh, they do. Seeing the health care bill pass certainly resulted in a warm feeling. I'm sure letting the tax cuts expire that will result in another warm feeling. I suppose, in a sense, one could say Obama is clean energy. :cof1:
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Then stop your bitchin, about how cold it gets.
 
apple0154 said:
In some places the water is government controlled. There is no "water company" like there is an electric company. The bill for the water meter is sent to the government, part of a tax.
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Bull shit.
Our town buys it's water, from the local water company, and then resells it to those who live within the city.
 
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