Atheist versus former atheist debate

Kamala Trump said:
like not stealing, not murdering, not sleeping with another mans' wife.

all cultures have this.

still confused, dumb idiot?
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I don't know of any culture where stealing is not occurring.
I don't know of any culture where murder is not occurring.
As for sleeping with another man's wife, some cultures are polygamous, including those that practice polyandry. To them, it is perfectly moral.

To the mobs, stealing and murder are moral, so long as you don't steal from your own or murder your own.

So what is 'universal' about morals?
 
NiftyNiblick said:
The millennium between the fall of Rome and the Renaissance was what a dark age looked like then.
This "Third Millennium" is what a dark age looks like now.
Enlightened civilization is equally impossible to find.

Probably, only those of us here who manage to live for 900 more years
will have a chance to witness a new Renaissance.
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Cypress said:
Debate between Richard Dawkins, high priest of the New Atheism, versus an erstwhile New Atheist colleague Ayann Hirsi Ali who converted to Christianity


Summary:

"Richard Dawkins claim is that we have rational humanism to offer as an antidote to not just Islam but all forms of religious delusion. Dawkins asks is faith merely a comforting fantasy for those not brave enough to face the 'blind, pitiless indifference' that lies, in Dawkins’ view, at the foundations of reality? Dawkins, it seems, believes that this is the choice on offer: truth or comfort. And he has chosen truth."

Ayaan Hirsi Ali: "I would not be truthful if I attributed my embrace of Christianity solely to the realization that atheism is too weak and divisive a doctrine to fortify us against our menacing foes (radical Islamisism, etc.). I have also turned to Christianity because I ultimately found life without any spiritual solace unendurable — indeed very nearly self-destructive. Atheism failed to answer a simple question: What is the meaning and purpose of life? Of course, I still have a great deal to learn about Christianity. But I have recognized, in my own long journey through a wilderness of fear and self-doubt, that there is a better way to manage the challenges of existence than either Islam or unbelief had to offer.”



https://www.premierunbelievable.com...irsi-ali-the-clash-of-our-times/17772.article
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I'm late to this thread, but it's interesting that she doesn't mention anything about actually believing in God, there being evidence for God, etc. She just talks about the usefulness of Christianity:

"I would not be truthful if I attributed my embrace of Christianity solely to the realization that atheism is too weak and divisive a doctrine to fortify us against our menacing foes (radical Islamisism, etc.). I have also turned to Christianity because I ultimately found life without any spiritual solace unendurable — indeed very nearly self-destructive. Atheism failed to answer a simple question: What is the meaning and purpose of life? Of course, I still have a great deal to learn about Christianity. But I have recognized, in my own long journey through a wilderness of fear and self-doubt, that there is a better way to manage the challenges of existence than either Islam or unbelief had to offer.”
 
ZenMode said:
I'm late to this thread, but it's interesting that she doesn't mention anything about actually believing in God, there being evidence for God, etc. She just talks about the usefulness of Christianity:

"I would not be truthful if I attributed my embrace of Christianity solely to the realization that atheism is too weak and divisive a doctrine to fortify us against our menacing foes (radical Islamisism, etc.). I have also turned to Christianity because I ultimately found life without any spiritual solace unendurable — indeed very nearly self-destructive. Atheism failed to answer a simple question: What is the meaning and purpose of life? Of course, I still have a great deal to learn about Christianity. But I have recognized, in my own long journey through a wilderness of fear and self-doubt, that there is a better way to manage the challenges of existence than either Islam or unbelief had to offer.”
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In the rest of the video, she speaks to how she has genuinely come to believe in God. When Dawkins challenged her and said her belief was not scientific or supported by a shred of empirical evidence, she said she had come to realize there are different planes of perception. An example being that one person can look at a Jason Pollock painting and just see an appalling mess of paint, and other person sees it as a tangible and profound expression of beauty. Her point was that there are planes of perception accessible to humans that do not involve scientific experiments or empirical data.
 
Cypress said:
In the rest of the video, she speaks to how she has genuinely come to believe in God. When Dawkins challenged her and said her belief was not scientific or supported by a shred of empirical evidence, she said she had come to realize there are different planes of perception. An example being that one person can look at a Jason Pollock painting and just see an appalling mess of paint, and other person sees it as a tangible and profound expression of beauty. Her point was that there are planes of perception accessible to humans that do not involve scientific experiments or empirical data.
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Seeing beauty where someone else sees garbage is also subjective. When you're talking about evidence for believing something, particularly some as extraordinary as a god, there either IS evidence or there IS NOT evidence.

Her verbal sleight of hand stuff is just one more way of rationalizing away the fact that there's no evidence.

I'll watch the video. I'm sure it's interesting. Richard Dawkins is smart, articulate and pretty funny.
 
Cypress said:
In the rest of the video, she speaks to how she has genuinely come to believe in God. When Dawkins challenged her and said her belief was not scientific or supported by a shred of empirical evidence, she said she had come to realize there are different planes of perception. An example being that one person can look at a Jason Pollock painting and just see an appalling mess of paint, and other person sees it as a tangible and profound expression of beauty. Her point was that there are planes of perception accessible to humans that do not involve scientific experiments or empirical data.
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I'm a few minutes in and she sounds like the stereotypical person who suddenly "finds" god. She's desperate, her life is going really bad, she's suicidal, etc. Lots of people "find" god in prison, too.
 
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