ATTN: NEOCONS... I have a plan....

[Lao Tse]

AHZ, I suggest you try reading my post again, and don't pause to interject the first knee-jerk argumentative socialist thought that comes into your commie bastard mind. Try to soak in the entire context of what I am saying, because you are missing things I am saying and it's causing you to look rather foolish.

You're a cretin. Telling me to reread is a pathetic copout. You have no valid arguments. You lose.

Greed can be a component of Capitalism, just as it can be a component of most anything Humans do.

I agree, and certain protectionist laws can serve to mitigate the greed component in capitalism, by putting certain other social concerns before the quest for corporate profit, like enforcing borders, or immigration laws DESIGNED to protect national opportunities for citizens.

It is a human attribute, not confined to Capitalists or Capitalism. Regardless of what kind of system you have, including all out Anarchy, the element of Greed is still present, because it is a Human trait. To attempt to tie Capitalism and Greed together and make them 'as one' with each other, is intellectual dishonesty. I find it hard to debate with the intellectually dishonest.

Im not saying it's confined to capitalism, that's a strawman argument you created as an excuse to abandon an argument you're losing.

Corporations do indeed involve themselves in society, in countless ways, and not just to get a tax break. I can name a few companies for you, if you like, but I think you will find most of American major corporations are very actively involved in community programs, partnerships with education, and helping those in times of need. Most of them have a vibrant Public Relations department, where the primary focus is the consumer and what they want or need.

Mostly pr campaigns. The trend has been toward less loyalty to employees or nation of origin.

That said, Corporations are all in business to make a profit. They are sometimes obligated to shareholders to do just that, or they cease being a corporation anymore. Attacking them for making a profit is a bit absurd, it's like attacking fish for swimming.

I attack them for the actions they take to pursue profit, not making profit at all. I don't attack fish for swimming, but I will not let a fish swim up my urinary tract and take a shit in one of my testicles.

Without corporations, there would be fewer jobs, don'tchya think? Of course, without jobs, people have no money so capitalism doesn't really matter anymore, and it will be easier to convince them of the greatness of Socialism under those conditions, is that your idea?

With globalization there are fewer jobs. And you portray the economy as positive despite massive personal debt. People are not DOING BETTER.

Im not a socialist, Im just not a fascist like you. I believe national policy should be more oriented towards maintaining the lifestyle of it's citizens instead of decimating america's working class for it's own short term gain. Corporations do NOT generally care about having a general positive impact on society, besides having a pr campaign which portrays such.

 

[Lao Tse]

Essentially, the seven laws are just good ethical common sense we should all follow as humans, regardless of our religious beliefs. AHZ doesn't like them because they don't call for the elimination of inferior races.

They call for non jews to be held under one set of laws, and jews another set of laws. And they contain a commandment to set up courts to uphold the noahide laws; that's theocracy. There is a noahide law against idolatry, and one against blasphemy as well. They're a return to dark ages style theocratic oppression.

 

[uscitizen]

Liberty is important ? Should Iraq have the freedom and liberty to have us leave their country ? Or are we just setting up a puppet nation ?

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

You're a cretin. Telling me to reread is a pathetic copout. You have no valid arguments. You lose.

Hard to lose an argument you aren't in. If you are not comprehending my points, you can't really form an argument against them, and you can't win an argument you can't make.

I agree, and certain protectionist laws can serve to mitigate the greed component in capitalism, by putting certain other social concerns before the quest for corporate profit, like enforcing borders, or immigration laws DESIGNED to protect national opportunities for citizens.

Wow, amazing... you read to the end of my statement, and found that we agree! That often happens to people who try it!

Im not saying it's confined to capitalism, that's a strawman argument you created as an excuse to abandon an argument you're losing.

Again, I can't be losing an argument that hasn't been made, and the last point you agreed on. There is no strawman, I detected hostility in your remarks about "globalism" which is the same thing as global capitalism, and you made the connection with greed. All I was point out was the obvious, which you seem to agree with, greed is not confined to capitalism. Capitalism is also not the root of Greed, nor does greed need to be a component of capitalism. They are two distinctly different things, and I agree that capitalism combined with greed is not good for society.

Mostly pr campaigns. The trend has been toward less loyalty to employees or nation of origin.

I don't understand this comment, and I don't think you understand the difference between a Public Relations Department and a PR Campaign. Your point was, Corporations do not concern themselves with the good of society, and that is false. If this were true, there would be no need for Public Relations departments.

I attack them for the actions they take to pursue profit, not making profit at all. I don't attack fish for swimming, but I will not let a fish swim up my urinary tract and take a shit in one of my testicles.

You attack them because you've read some Communist Socialist ideals and think you see where they are coming from. Communist Socialists HATE Capitalism, it is the antithesis of what they believe in, and they will literally say anything to get you to believe Capitalism is evil and bad, because Socialism can't prevail in a Capitalist society. Now, Capitalists generally do the same thing about Socialism, so propaganda works both ways. Since we can't judge by the propaganda, we have to look at world history, and which method had been the most beneficial to the people.

With globalization there are fewer jobs. And you portray the economy as positive despite massive personal debt. People are not DOING BETTER.

The economy is good, but it could be better. We are starting to feel the drag from high energy prices, and the housing bubble burst, and you are correct about personal debt, it is at all time record highs. This doesn't translate to Greedy Capitalist Pigs Must Die! Sorry, to the contrary, it means we have to find ways to allow Capitalism to flourish and deliver prosperity again.

Im not a socialist, Im just not a fascist like you. I believe national policy should be more oriented towards maintaining the lifestyle of it's citizens instead of decimating america's working class for it's own short term gain. Corporations do NOT generally care about having a general positive impact on society, besides having a pr campaign which portrays such.

How do you propose the Nation 'maintain the lifestyle of it's citizens' without corporations or capitalism? Should we all work for the Nation and let it take care of our every need? The idea has been tried before in a large nation like ours, and the results were not great at all. People who work for the state, have no motivation for success, and thus, no inclination to excel at what they do. Why do any more than the minimum required by you, if it isn't going to mean anything more to you? Over time, the mind becomes more conditioned to this thought, and you have no motivation to even do the minimum. What is the use? You will have the same house as your neighbor, eat the same food, and never be anything other than a worker for the state.

I'm anything but a Fascist, I believe in the people having the power to do their will, and very little government interference with that. This includes freedom to practice capitalism and use the free market to prosper and get rich, and own a big giant corporation one day, if that is what you want to do. Fascists to me are Liberals, who want to force their will down our throats through activist judges, rather than allowing the people to vote on it.

 

[Minister of Truth]

To live without religion is best.

That's all well and good for Dems, but some of us care whether or not we go to hell...

 

[Lao Tse]

Hard to lose an argument you aren't in. If you are not comprehending my points, you can't really form an argument against them, and you can't win an argument you can't make.

You were saying that capitalism and greed have little to do with each other. That's pretty ridiculous.

Wow, amazing... you read to the end of my statement, and found that we agree! That often happens to people who try it!

If you agree with me that protectionism and labor standards are good in moderation then you're not a globalist because they want to eliminate those protections for citizens around the world.

Again, I can't be losing an argument that hasn't been made, and the last point you agreed on. There is no strawman, I detected hostility in your remarks about "globalism" which is the same thing as global capitalism, and you made the connection with greed. All I was point out was the obvious, which you seem to agree with, greed is not confined to capitalism. Capitalism is also not the root of Greed, nor does greed need to be a component of capitalism. They are two distinctly different things, and I agree that capitalism combined with greed is not good for society.

Capitalism confined in some kind of moral context is fine with me. Globalization is the removal of capitalism from any kind of moral context, and refusing to way other social long term interests against the drive for profit.

I don't understand this comment, and I don't think you understand the difference between a Public Relations Department and a PR Campaign. Your point was, Corporations do not concern themselves with the good of society, and that is false. If this were true, there would be no need for Public Relations departments.

I'm saying their desire to have a positive impact on the societies they're in are just PR talking points. They don't really care.

You attack them because you've read some Communist Socialist ideals and think you see where they are coming from.

Nope. I attack them because they have perverted capitalism and turned it into fascism where all policy, domestic and international, is formulate according to corporate desires and not in consideration of all citizens of the country.

Communist Socialists HATE Capitalism, it is the antithesis of what they believe in, and they will literally say anything to get you to believe Capitalism is evil and bad, because Socialism can't prevail in a Capitalist society.

I'm not a socialist and i don't hate capitalism, Im just not a fascist like you.

Now, Capitalists generally do the same thing about Socialism, so propaganda works both ways. Since we can't judge by the propaganda, we have to look at world history, and which method had been the most beneficial to the people.

And you casting this as an Either / or Issue, is propagandistic in nature.

We used to ban slave labor goods, and had moderate protectionism to protect workers and industries even, did we used to be communist during that time? It's not that long ago.

The economy is good, but it could be better. We are starting to feel the drag from high energy prices, and the housing bubble burst, and you are correct about personal debt, it is at all time record highs. This doesn't translate to Greedy Capitalist Pigs Must Die! Sorry, to the contrary, it means we have to find ways to allow Capitalism to flourish and deliver prosperity again.

Yes. We should put capitalism back into a context of other considerations, instead of allowing corporations to dictate all policy.

How do you propose the Nation 'maintain the lifestyle of it's citizens' without corporations or capitalism?

I don't propose that even be attempted. Im not a lefty you fucking dumbass.

Should we all work for the Nation and let it take care of our every need? The idea has been tried before in a large nation like ours, and the results were not great at all. People who work for the state, have no motivation for success, and thus, no inclination to excel at what they do. Why do any more than the minimum required by you, if it isn't going to mean anything more to you? Over time, the mind becomes more conditioned to this thought, and you have no motivation to even do the minimum. What is the use? You will have the same house as your neighbor, eat the same food, and never be anything other than a worker for the state.

Save that diatribe for your communist friends.

And for the record there are plenty of leeches in middle management who do nothing.

I'm anything but a Fascist, I believe in the people having the power to do their will, and very little government interference with that. This includes freedom to practice capitalism and use the free market to prosper and get rich, and own a big giant corporation one day, if that is what you want to do. Fascists to me are Liberals, who want to force their will down our throats through activist judges, rather than allowing the people to vote on it.

No. You are a fascist. And liberals who do not renounce globalization are also fascists, and they are learning to love it more, as they see that the brand of capitalism practiced now, globalism, is a plan to destroy american people.

 

[Lao Tse]

I believe that people should have the right to make life for themselves. I do not believe, as you do, that they should be babied and catered to by government. Liberty is equality of opportunity, not of circumstance. Who are you to tell me that I cannot borrow what I cannot afford to pay back?

Right. YOu believe corporations should be babied and catered to by government.

 

[Lao Tse]

Do you really think it's right that corporations lobbied government to create a special visa just to allow foreigners to undercut the indigenous workforce?

 

[Lao Tse]

Importing cheaper replacement human beings? Really? Wow. that shouldn't like be allowed and stuff.

 

[Lao Tse]

Some indian engineer wished on one freaky friday the 13th to be a programmer in america. Presto. the black arts of globalization performed the transmogrification.

 

[Minister of Truth]

Right. YOu believe corporations should be babied and catered to by government.

Yeah, you really understood when I said, "equality of opportunity, not of circumstance." To translate that for you, corporate welfare would be giving someone an advantage in opportunity over others and improve their circumstance via government.

Importing cheaper replacement human beings? Really? Wow. that shouldn't like be allowed and stuff.

Why shouldn't it be allowed?

 

[Lao Tse]

Yeah, you really understood when I said, "equality of opportunity, not of circumstance." To translate that for you, corporate welfare would be giving someone an advantage in opportunity over others and improve their circumstance via government.



Why shouldn't it be allowed?

Immigration law should not be altered to accomodate the desires of corporations who are merely seeking cheaper labor.

 

[Minister of Truth]

It should be your right to hire whomever you want, unless the employee has a criminal record that precludes the from working in your field (i.e. if you owned a private high school and a convicted pedophile applied for a security position).

Or if the applicant is in the country illegally...

 

[Lao Tse]

It should be your right to hire whomever you want, unless the employee has a criminal record that precludes the from working in your field (i.e. if you owned a private high school and a convicted pedophile applied for a security position).

Or if the applicant is in the country illegally...

Yes. revert to your simplistic idiocy so you can obscure the reality of the situtation.

Companies are influencing the government to change laws simply to manipulate the labor market in a more favorable direction. What you in your "markets always work" idiocy overlook is that markets are manipulated by many interested parties.

 

[Lao Tse]

Yeah, you really understood when I said, "equality of opportunity, not of circumstance." To translate that for you, corporate welfare would be giving someone an advantage in opportunity over others and improve their circumstance via government.

And changing immigration law to give corporations an advantage over indigenous workers is improving their circumstance via government.

If your ignorant ass could see this wouldn't have to be such a compulsive jerk anymore.

 

[Minister of Truth]

Politicians don't have to listen to lobbiests, and people don't have to re-elect those that do. Your rants about corporations are like saying that you are a threat to the board because you try to influence people with all of your conspiracy theories, and rather than sit down and talk, I should save the board by shooting you and permanently ending the threat. PEOPLE HAVE RIGHTS YOU GODDAMN NAZI!!!!!!!!!

Changing immigration laws would benefit the infrastructure of our nation (particularly the southwest states) and would require businesses to pay required wages and expenses that they do not pay hiring illegals. Idiot.

 

[Battleborne]

Our Immigration laws............

Politicians don't have to listen to lobbiests, and people don't have to re-elect those that do. Your rants about corporations are like saying that you are a threat to the board because you try to influence people with all of your conspiracy theories, and rather than sit down and talk, I should save the board by shooting you and permanently ending the threat. PEOPLE HAVE RIGHTS YOU GODDAMN NAZI!!!!!!!!!

Changing immigration laws would benefit the infrastructure of our nation (particularly the southwest states) and would require businesses to pay required wages and expenses that they do not pay hiring illegals. Idiot.

are just fine...the problem is we do not enforce them correctly...and by the way Mexico has way more stricter Immigration laws than the US...I say send all Illegal Immigrants home along with their enablers, those companies who encourage and hire them...let Mexico take care of their own problem...I am sick of it!

and by the way fyi 33% of our US produce and vegitables are imported...and of the 33% 80% is from Mexico..I am sick of getting sick from contaminated imports...yes China also...did you know that they use untreated animal fecal matter as fertilizer?..and this includes human waste also!

 

[Lao Tse]

Politicians don't have to listen to lobbiests, and people don't have to re-elect those that do. Your rants about corporations are like saying that you are a threat to the board because you try to influence people with all of your conspiracy theories, and rather than sit down and talk, I should save the board by shooting you and permanently ending the threat. PEOPLE HAVE RIGHTS YOU GODDAMN NAZI!!!!!!!!!

Yes, people do have rights, one of them is a right to a government that makes policy in the best interest of most instead of the best interest of corporate officers,executives, and shareholders.

Changing immigration laws would benefit the infrastructure of our nation (particularly the southwest states) and would require businesses to pay required wages and expenses that they do not pay hiring illegals. Idiot.

Changing immigration law would benefit the infrastructure of our nation? WTF does that mean?

You're a fool.

 

[Epicurus]

and by the way fyi 33% of our US produce and vegitables are imported...and of the 33% 80% is from Mexico..I am sick of getting sick from contaminated imports...yes China also...did you know that they use untreated animal fecal matter as fertilizer?..and this includes human waste also!

Dumbass protectionist socialist.

 

[Minister of Truth]

BB- 95% of farmers would go bankrupt if they followed the current green card procedures for hiring Mexicans to come work for them. Obviously, our current immigration laws are fucked up. How come neocons don't know jack about agriculture these days?

Asshate- apparently you are not aware that health services and other such pieces of infrastructure are crumbling in the border states due to illegal immigration. Idiot.