ATTN: NEOCONS... I have a plan....

Threedee said:
Hey, Asshate, corporations don't get to decide immigration policy, politicians do that...
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The point is, the politicians are owned by the corporations, who then pay them to make decisions in favor of cheap, under the table, shadow underclass workers that they can pay dimes to dollars.
 
Damocles said:
The point is, the politicians are owned by the corporations, who then pay them to make decisions in favor of cheap, under the table, shadow underclass workers that they can pay dimes to dollars.
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Politicians are not "owned" they are elected by US!

Why do we see a Congress with a lower approval rating than George W. Bush? Because we all relate to our own representatives on a personal basis... we will immediately point out that Congress is terrible and needs a housecleaning, but for some miraculous reason, our particular congressman is doing a good job and doesn't need to go.
 
Dixie said:
Politicians are not "owned" they are elected by US!

Why do we see a Congress with a lower approval rating than George W. Bush? Because we all relate to our own representatives on a personal basis... we will immediately point out that Congress is terrible and needs a housecleaning, but for some miraculous reason, our particular congressman is doing a good job and doesn't need to go.
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BS, in order to get elected they are purchased by special interest. Why do you think people rail against it so strongly and why so many poor decisions are made that obviously favor the special interest?

Coin operated government is a reality, only the absolute most naive would pretend that funding campaigns nets special interest nothing at all.
 
Damocles said:
BS, in order to get elected they are purchased by special interest. Why do you think people rail against it so strongly and why so many poor decisions are made that obviously favor the special interest?

Coin operated government is a reality, only the absolute most naive would pretend that funding campaigns nets special interest nothing at all.
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Corporations, banks and special interest groups do not elect the politician, WE DO! If they are beholden to special interests and banks/corporations, we have no business voting for them! The thing is, we are too goddamn lazy to care! We hear them speak, watch them play the sax on SNL, or chop wood, and they kiss our babies and talk to us about feeling our pain, and we just melt! We flock to the polls time after time, to re-elect them so they can go off to Washington and do the same thing again.

I mentioned it earlier, and I wish I could find the poll, but they asked two questions, do you feel congress is doing a good job, and do you feel your representative is doing a good job. It was stunning the difference. A vast and overwhelming majority thought congress sucked big fat donkey dicks, and a vast majority also felt their particular congressman was great! THIS is the problem, Damo! THIS is why special interest "owns" the politicians. Who's fault is it? OURS! What can we do to stop it? VOTE THEM OUT! This stupid and idiotic notion that we can legislate campaign finance reform or throw up a bunch of rules and restrictions, and that will solve it all, is lunacy!
 
Dixie said:
Corporations, banks and special interest groups do not elect the politician, WE DO! If they are beholden to special interests and banks/corporations, we have no business voting for them! The thing is, we are too goddamn lazy to care! We hear them speak, watch them play the sax on SNL, or chop wood, and they kiss our babies and talk to us about feeling our pain, and we just melt! We flock to the polls time after time, to re-elect them so they can go off to Washington and do the same thing again.

I mentioned it earlier, and I wish I could find the poll, but they asked two questions, do you feel congress is doing a good job, and do you feel your representative is doing a good job. It was stunning the difference. A vast and overwhelming majority thought congress sucked big fat donkey dicks, and a vast majority also felt their particular congressman was great! THIS is the problem, Damo! THIS is why special interest "owns" the politicians. Who's fault is it? OURS! What can we do to stop it? VOTE THEM OUT! This stupid and idiotic notion that we can legislate campaign finance reform or throw up a bunch of rules and restrictions, and that will solve it all, is lunacy!
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Again, they don't elect them, they purchase them before they are elected using money to gain influence. Pretending that "we have no business voting for them" is just silly pretense bordering on naivety so strong that it could be considered a psychological problem.

Politicians are influenced by the people who fund their campaigns, it is simple as that. As long as they have deep enough pockets to purchase each of the likely winners it will continue to be as simple as that.

Pretending that because people think their congressperson is doing a good job while the whole of congress sucks makes it so that politicians are not influenced by money is preposterous.
 
Damocles said:
The point is, the politicians are owned by the corporations, who then pay them to make decisions in favor of cheap, under the table, shadow underclass workers that they can pay dimes to dollars.
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If its a problem, then angry people can write letters, spam emails and phone lines, picket, and if that all fails, assassinate the politicians...
 
I used to like how little party discipline we have in America, but today it just seems like people are voting for familiarity rather than any sort of beliefs or issues or leadership. Our incumbency rate is ridiculous. And it could be seriously argued that the senate represents us better than the house; gerrymandering is out of control.
 
Threedee said:
If its a problem, then angry people can write letters, spam emails and phone lines, picket, and if that all fails, assassinate the politicians...
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Same goes to you, if your agenda starts to fail you can start killing people, oh wait, your side has been doing that since time immemorial.
 
Dixie said:
Let me take time out from ripping you a new asshat, to let you know I am in agreement with you on this issue. It is a good example of what I said earlier, regarding the need for some restraint of capitalism. Greed and Capitalism is behind the lack of action regarding illegal immigration. This is indeed an instance where "We The People" should step in and regulate/restrict capitalism.

In most cases, we should strive to allow commercial enterprise to flourish and profit, because when they do, we all win. It is important not to burden corporations with unnecessary regulations and restrictions, because it always effects consumers to do so. Even the situation we agree on, illegal immigration, will ultimately effect consumers if we prevail in the restriction on hiring them. Our produce will skyrocket in price, because we are going to pay for the increase in labor costs in the end. But it is an issue that is fundamentally more important than a $4 head of lettuce.
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Maybe if we don't allow corporation to alter immigration policy to get the labor, they will work on a great labor saving machine. Remember innovation!
 
Dixie said:
Corporations, banks and special interest groups do not elect the politician, WE DO! If they are beholden to special interests and banks/corporations, we have no business voting for them! The thing is, we are too goddamn lazy to care! We hear them speak, watch them play the sax on SNL, or chop wood, and they kiss our babies and talk to us about feeling our pain, and we just melt! We flock to the polls time after time, to re-elect them so they can go off to Washington and do the same thing again.

I mentioned it earlier, and I wish I could find the poll, but they asked two questions, do you feel congress is doing a good job, and do you feel your representative is doing a good job. It was stunning the difference. A vast and overwhelming majority thought congress sucked big fat donkey dicks, and a vast majority also felt their particular congressman was great! THIS is the problem, Damo! THIS is why special interest "owns" the politicians. Who's fault is it? OURS! What can we do to stop it? VOTE THEM OUT! This stupid and idiotic notion that we can legislate campaign finance reform or throw up a bunch of rules and restrictions, and that will solve it all, is lunacy!
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Special interests have influence. Corporations have more. Don't be so lopsided in your ability to see.
 
Basically dixie, the point is that ANY limit on business in ANY way can effect profits, and that's ok. You cannot attack anything that effect profits as COMMUNISM or SOCIALISM; it's just not the case. Otherwise, you're a communist for wanting to control the border.
 
Watermark said:
I used to like how little party discipline we have in America, but today it just seems like people are voting for familiarity rather than any sort of beliefs or issues or leadership. Our incumbency rate is ridiculous. And it could be seriously argued that the senate represents us better than the house; gerrymandering is out of control.
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You always like the wrong things. The two party system is just a huge false dichotomy, giving people the illusion of choice.
 
Damn, I'm an egotistical elitist, but I don't get my boxers all in a knot when I discover that I can't subvert other people's wills to make me feel in control...
 
AssHatZombie said:
Basically dixie, the point is that ANY limit on business in ANY way can effect profits, and that's ok. You cannot attack anything that effect profits as COMMUNISM or SOCIALISM; it's just not the case. Otherwise, you're a communist for wanting to control the border.
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I will explain this one more time so you may comprehend it... Nothing effects profits other than people not buying your stuff. You can try to wage war on profits all you like, you will never effect them as long as there are customers willing to buy what is being sold. Restrictions, regulations, mandates, taxes, penalties, fines, etc.... DO NOT and WILL NOT EVER effect the profits. You can pretend that is the case if you like, doesn't matter to me, but that is the bottom line.

I have also explained to your dumb ass, why this is... Stockholders! Corporations are beholden to the Stockholders to make more profit, not less. If they need to raise prices to do this, or lay off workers, or cancel expansion projects, whatever... they will, in order to maintain the same profit rates. So, nothing you can do to them will ultimately effect their profits, or the paychecks of their CEO's and upper management. All of that will stay the same.

I am not attacking something that "effects profits" because you haven't shown me anything that effects profits yet, you've only mentioned things which would increase consumer price or cost jobs.
 
Dixie said:
I will explain this one more time so you may comprehend it... Nothing effects profits other than people not buying your stuff.
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False. Being forced to upgrade working conditions or to use adult (more expensive) labor effects profits too, if they cannot raise the price and still be competitive. Lots of things do, your reductionist absurdity notwithstanding.
You can try to wage war on profits all you like, you will never effect them as long as there are customers willing to buy what is being sold. Restrictions, regulations, mandates, taxes, penalties, fines, etc.... DO NOT and WILL NOT EVER effect the profits. You can pretend that is the case if you like, doesn't matter to me, but that is the bottom line.
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I have no problem with profits, i have a problem with profits gained in immoral or otherwise destructive or shortsighted ways.
I have also explained to your dumb ass, why this is... Stockholders! Corporations are beholden to the Stockholders to make more profit, not less.
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And the rest of humanity is obligated to itself to stop the fascist assault.
If they need to raise prices to do this, or lay off workers, or cancel expansion projects, whatever... they will, in order to maintain the same profit rates. So, nothing you can do to them will ultimately effect their profits, or the paychecks of their CEO's and upper management. All of that will stay the same.
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Taking their profits is not my goal you ignorant ass-cheese. I want them to not subvert traditional limits on commerce based on this very same free market zealotry you espouse.
I am not attacking something that "effects profits" because you haven't shown me anything that effects profits yet, you've only mentioned things which would increase consumer price or cost jobs.
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The potential profit effect is passed along. If nothing effects profits you should have no worries.


If you were pimping out your daughter for profit but found out it was illegal, your profit wouldn't be effected because you would switch to pimping out dogs. It's all good.
 
Dixie said:
"I will explain this one more time so you may comprehend it... Nothing effects profits other than people not buying your stuff. You can try to wage war on profits all you like, you will never effect them as long as there are customers willing to buy what is being sold. Restrictions, regulations, mandates, taxes, penalties, fines, etc.... DO NOT and WILL NOT EVER effect the profits. You can pretend that is the case if you like, doesn't matter to me, but that is the bottom line."

talk about clueless.
This is another classic ?
 
AssHatZombie said:
False. Being forced to upgrade working conditions or to use adult (more expensive) labor effects profits too, if they cannot raise the price and still be competitive. Lots of things do, your reductionist absurdity notwithstanding.
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Look fool, you can deny reality all day long, it will not suddenly become a fact! Anything you FORCE business to do, will be paid for by increasing the price of their product to compensate. They are certainly NOT going to just cut their profits to appease you! It is this kind of idiotic and absurd thinking that has prompted your idiotic and absurd view! Nothing you will ever impose on them is going to come out of profits, it's just not. They will find any number of other ways to pay for whatever stupid burden you strap them with, but they will never do this with profits. It doesn't happen, has never happened, and will never happen in the world we live in.

I have no problem with profits, i have a problem with profits gained in immoral or otherwise destructive or shortsighted ways.
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What you see as moral and what I see as moral are two different things, who gave you the right to determine what is moral and immoral for me? I am almost positive I could find some way to 'condemn the morality' of almost ANY capitalist venture, so in essence, by putting corporate profit in context of morality, you are essentially opposed to any and all profits.

And the rest of humanity is obligated to itself to stop the fascist assault.
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You don't want to stop Fascist assault, you want to stop profits, you have already made that clear. What is 'humane" about forcing consumers to pay more for goods and services because you are too stupid to understand how business and capitalism work? What is the "good to humanity" in causing jobs to be eliminated and people to be laid off, because you are too incompetent to know what the fuck you're talking about? And who the hell are you "obligated to" when your idiotic and foolish ideas are implemented and fail? You've constructed an idea based on a fallacy. You think you can effect profits, take some of them for your own 'moral' reasons, punish the greedy corporation for all it's filthy capitalism! You are an idiot! I've explained precisely why your idea is idiotic, and you STILL insist you are right and I am wrong, which makes you an ignorant idiot!

Taking their profits is not my goal you ignorant ass-cheese. I want them to not subvert traditional limits on commerce based on this very same free market zealotry you espouse.
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Whattt????? Traditional limits on commerce? WTF is that even supposed to mean you moron? We live in a capitalist free-market free-enterprise society, there IS NO LIMITS on commerce! Let's be honest, you want us to live in a Socialist society, where Government controls industry and business! A Fascist Socialist Society! That is what your "goal" is, and you aren't fooling anyone!


The potential profit effect is passed along. If nothing effects profits you should have no worries.
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What is passed along is the expense of whatever stupidity you impose on the corporation! Their profits will remain the same, or increase, because they are obligated to stockholders to somehow find a way to make that happen, if they don't, they go out of business and you have no profits because you have no corporation! You want to vilify corporations so a sympathetic public will go along with your stupidity to fund your idea of morality at our expense! No thanks!

If you were pimping out your daughter for profit but found out it was illegal, your profit wouldn't be effected because you would switch to pimping out dogs. It's all good.
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What kind of convoluted and ridiculous point are you trying to make here? We are not talking about someone doing something illegal and illicit, we are talking about corporate profits! Maybe you just thought you were being cute with a personal attack on my family here, I'm not sure, but it doesn't have a damn thing to do with the topic at hand, and if this is what you have relegated yourself to, then our conversation is over.
 
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