Birth Right Citizenship Will It Finally End?

Totally correct.

Children born to foreign diplomats, illegal aliens, and similar circumstances do NOT magickally obtain citizenship of the United States.
Compositional fallacy. Children born to foreign diplomats do not fall under US jurisdiction. Children born to Illegal aliens fall under US jurisdiction.

Children of illegal aliens and the like are NOT subjects of jurisdiction of the United States.
Children of illegal aliens are subject to US jurisdiction.

If you go to [some other country] and break a law, [different laws will be applied from those that would be applied in the US]
FTFY. Yes, I get it. Still, nothing has changed here in the US.

YOU are trying to argue that it DOES make you a citizen of Germany because you were in their jurisdiction when you broke the law.
Thank you for bringing us back to the topic of the laws broken by the child born in the US. Please list them.
 
Misreading fallacy. US citizenship <--> birth in the US
No such fallacy. Denial of logic. Inversion fallacy.
The 14th Amendment mentions it very clearly.
No, it doesn't.
Correct. The Supreme Court can only apply the law, e.g. the 14th Amendment, and affirm that someone born in the US of foreigners is a US citizen.
They are not. Go read the 14th amendment again and stop playing word games.
The 14th Amendment is definitely an amendment.
Strawman fallacy. I never said it wasn't.
Both what? You should stop trying to rewrite the Constitution into some other document you prefer.
Inversion fallacy.
Birth in the US is citizenship in the US.
No, it isn't.
Word game fallacy. US citizens are not deported, but may travel outside the country.
Inversion fallacy. Compositional error fallacy.
I know that this is exactly how you are mistaken.
Inversion fallacy.
The child is a US citizen by birth in the US.
No, it isn't. It was born to an illegal alien.
It's hard to be a citizen before birth.
Strawman fallacy. Irrelevance fallacy.
No citizen needs to immigrate and no citizen needs to obtain a second citizenship.
They are not citizen of the U.S.
The child is a US citizen.
No, it is not.
No citizen is deported. Citizens travel outside the country.
The child is not a US citizen.
Correct. You are not the Constitution.
Strawman fallacy. I never said I was. Mantra 30a.
You are off base; the Constitution is not.
Inversion fallacy.
When do you estimate that the US will see things as you do? I predict that birthright citizenship will never be stripped.
An illegal alien has no right to stay in the United States.
 
Totally correct.


Compositional fallacy.
Paradox. Irrational. You cannot argue both side of a paradox.
Children born to foreign diplomats do not fall under US jurisdiction.
Because foreign diplomats are subjects of jurisdiction of their originating nations. So are their children.
Children born to Illegal aliens fall under US jurisdiction.
No, they don't. Illegal aliens are subjects of jurisdiction of their originating nations. So are their children.
Children of illegal aliens are subject to US jurisdiction.
Word games. Don't try to rewrite the 14th amendment.
FTFY. Yes, I get it. Still, nothing has changed here in the US.
The U.S. changes all the time. See the history of the United States. The Constitution even changes. It gets amended from time to time. States also amend their constitutions, usually more extensively and more often.
Thank you for bringing us back to the topic of the laws broken by the child born in the US. Please list them.
RQAA.
 
Constitutional amendments must go through a process to be changed. I know Trump thinks he can do whatever he wants, but the founders deliberately made it tough to change.
 
No, it isn't.
Yes, it clearly is. I'm not sure how you can so misread the 14th.

It was born to an illegal alien.
The 14th Amendment has no "illegal parent exclusion." Birth in the US is all that matters.

You've had plenty of time and opportunity to list off the crimes committed by children born in the US. Your EVASION is conspicuous.

They are not citizen of the U.S.
All children born in the US are US citizens. You are chanting.

An illegal alien has no right to stay in the United States.
Pivot. Let's return the topic to the US citizen child who is born in the US, who has committed no crime (as you have astutely noted and have dishonestly not mentioned) and who falls under US jurisdiction.
 
Because foreign diplomats are subjects of jurisdiction of their originating nations. So are their children.
Correct. Key word: Diplomats They provide the other-than-US jurisdiction. Diplomats.


No, they don't. Illegal aliens are subjects of jurisdiction of their originating nations.
Correct, but their children, who are born in the US, do fall under US jurisdiction and are US citizens per the 14th amendment. Your argument falls on this sword.
 
Yes, it clearly is. I'm not sure how you can so misread the 14th.
Your word games don't work.
The 14th Amendment has no "illegal parent exclusion." Birth in the US is all that matters.
You word games won't work.
You've had plenty of time and opportunity to list off the crimes committed by children born in the US. Your EVASION is conspicuous.
RQAA
All children born in the US are US citizens. You are chanting.
No. Inversion fallacy.
Fallacy fallacy. No pivot of any kind occurred.
Let's return the topic to the US citizen child who is born in the US, who has committed no crime (as you have astutely noted and have dishonestly not mentioned) and who falls under US jurisdiction.
Repetition fallacy (chanting). RQAA.
 
This argument has gone through the paces for sure, but after reading some of the latest comments I figured I'd throw in my updated two cents worth again as an exercise of thinking more than anything.

The 14th Amendment says, “All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens.” But seriously people, those words don’t mean a free pass for border-jumpers’ kids. The “subject to the jurisdiction” clause screams intent, and illegal aliens aren’t fully under U.S. jurisdiction.

They’re scofflaws thumbing their noses at our laws, not pledging allegiance. Legal scholar Edward Erler, in his 2015 Claremont Review piece, nails it. “The 14th Amendment was never intended to confer citizenship on the children of illegal aliens, whose presence violates federal law.” Founders didn’t envision anchor babies as a loophole.

How can a reasonable thinking person believe that the Founders foresaw that we would allow non-citizens that break into our Country and have a child become an instant citizen? Congress fought hard to pass the 14th Amendment to counter racist state laws, Black Codes, Jim Crow seeds, popping up to strip black rights in the South. Thaddeus Stevens, the 'radical' Republican and amendment backer, said in 1866, “This amendment secures the great principles of freedom and equality.” But somehow we've twisted it into a border-jumping loophole.

Lynn Wardle, a top law prof at Brigham Young, agrees in his 2010 Harvard Journal of Law, saying, “Granting citizenship to children of illegal entrants undermines sovereignty and incentivizes law-breaking, hardly the republic’s intent.” Exactly, why reward breaking in with a golden ticket. It’s a magnet for illegal entry, straining schools, hospitals, and taxpayers, Census data showing 4.5 million “birth tourists” since 2000. Scrap it, and you gut the incentive, securing borders even more and saving many tragic abuses, rapes and deaths, also cutting off another revenue stream for the cartels.

We all know where President Trump’s EO will end up. What I still find amazing after all these years is that if the SC rules that the EO is not constitutional, I will believe that the judges could not bear the pressures and caved for nothing more than peer pressure and perhaps they believe they should change the intent because of their personal beliefs rather than an honest reading of the text and its clear intent.

If they rule the opposite, the left will say nearly the same thing, except of course with a bit of a sharper edge. Instead of peer pressure it will be because they fear the 'dangerous dictator's response, or something like that. And so goes the battle.
 
This argument has gone through the paces for sure, but after reading some of the latest comments I figured I'd throw in my updated two cents worth again as an exercise of thinking more than anything.

The 14th Amendment says, “All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens.” But seriously people, those words don’t mean a free pass for border-jumpers’ kids. The “subject to the jurisdiction” clause screams intent, and illegal aliens aren’t fully under U.S. jurisdiction.

They’re scofflaws thumbing their noses at our laws, not pledging allegiance. Legal scholar Edward Erler, in his 2015 Claremont Review piece, nails it. “The 14th Amendment was never intended to confer citizenship on the children of illegal aliens, whose presence violates federal law.” Founders didn’t envision anchor babies as a loophole.

How can a reasonable thinking person believe that the Founders foresaw that we would allow non-citizens that break into our Country and have a child become an instant citizen? Congress fought hard to pass the 14th Amendment to counter racist state laws, Black Codes, Jim Crow seeds, popping up to strip black rights in the South. Thaddeus Stevens, the 'radical' Republican and amendment backer, said in 1866, “This amendment secures the great principles of freedom and equality.” But somehow we've twisted it into a border-jumping loophole.

Lynn Wardle, a top law prof at Brigham Young, agrees in his 2010 Harvard Journal of Law, saying, “Granting citizenship to children of illegal entrants undermines sovereignty and incentivizes law-breaking, hardly the republic’s intent.” Exactly, why reward breaking in with a golden ticket. It’s a magnet for illegal entry, straining schools, hospitals, and taxpayers, Census data showing 4.5 million “birth tourists” since 2000. Scrap it, and you gut the incentive, securing borders even more and saving many tragic abuses, rapes and deaths, also cutting off another revenue stream for the cartels.

We all know where President Trump’s EO will end up. What I still find amazing after all these years is that if the SC rules that the EO is not constitutional, I will believe that the judges could not bear the pressures and caved for nothing more than peer pressure and perhaps they believe they should change the intent because of their personal beliefs rather than an honest reading of the text and its clear intent.

If they rule the opposite, the left will say nearly the same thing, except of course with a bit of a sharper edge. Instead of peer pressure it will be because they fear the 'dangerous dictator's response, or something like that. And so goes the battle.
Illegal Aliens are not citizens cannot vote or serve in the military, can't serve on juries, nor pay taxes and so they are not under the jurisdiction of our law. Just like American Indians prior to 1925 were not subject to our laws. Before then most Native Americans were not taxed , couldn't serve in the military, and could not vote. It is clear they weren't subject to our laws. In Elk vs Wilkins the supreme court ruled Elk could not vote because he owed his elegance to another sovereign nation. Prior to 1925 American Indians were not citizens even if they were born off the reservation. During the 100 years between 1925 to 2025 we have forgotten the meaning of the 14th amendment. The SC in 1884 just 26 years after the 14th was enacted the SC ruled Elk wasn't an American citizen and could not vote. Hopefully the SC will go for the original intent of the 14th amendment.

Native Americans can today vote, serve on juries , pay taxes and serve in the military because they were given citizenship by the Snyder Act not the 14th amendment.
 
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Correct. Key word: Diplomats They provide the other-than-US jurisdiction. Diplomats.



Correct, but their children, who are born in the US, do fall under US jurisdiction and are US citizens per the 14th amendment. Your argument falls on this sword.
Not according to the SC decision in Elk V Wilkins. American Indians born in the US prior to 1925 could not vote regardless of where they were born.
 
Illegal Aliens are not citizens cannot vote or serve in the military, can't serve on juries, nor pay taxes and so they are not under the jurisdiction of our law. Just like American Indians prior to 1925 were not subject to our laws. Before then most Native Americans were not taxed , couldn't serve in the military, and could not vote. It is clear they weren't subject to our laws. In Elk vs Wilkins the supreme court ruled Elk could not vote because he owed his elegance to another sovereign nation. Prior to 1925 American Indians were not citizens even if they were born off the reservation. During the 100 years between 1925 to 2025 we have forgotten the meaning of the 14th amendment. The SC in 1884 just 26 years after the 14th was enacted the SC ruled Elk wasn't an American citizen and could not vote. Hopefully the SC will go for the original intent of the 14th amendment.

Native Americans can today vote, serve on juries , pay taxes and serve in the military because they were given citizenship by the Snyder Act not the 14th amendment.
Illegals pay normal taxes if they have a job. They cannot collect any benefits from their taxes.
 
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