Bitch bitch bitch

lying rules said:
yurt hated my guts a year ago but now we are best bros again. so... it could be more jades fault. or.... you just have to be a very high caliber individual (such as myself) to get back in yurts good graces, not everyone can live up to my standards though.
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Yurt is cool, except when he's not of course!!
 
In my own view, anyone who can tolerate me deserves praise, and anyone who can tolerate Havana Moon/earl is saintly. As to some of the other weirdoes on here, words fail me! The Good Lord himself must be running the place :)
 
Hello ThatOwlWoman,

ThatOwlWoman said:
But to hear them tell it, *we* are the ones basing everything on emotions.

There are some good Righties here to discuss ideas with. They don't feel the need to endlessly parrot talking points or indulge in ad homs.
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That's true, but they still tend to dispute the facts which logically lead to liberal policy.

The right wants to consider what is best for self. The left wants to consider what is best for society.

The right wants everyone to be on their own. If disadvantaged, blame the individual for not climbing out of that.

The left recognizes the fact that we live in society, wants to improve society. When society is lifted, all benefit.

It's like the right wants to pretend we don't live in a society.

Except we do.
 
Basically, the way I see it, the left cares about other people. The right only cares about self.

That's really it.

If you can take care of yourself the right is fine with you.

If you can't, then it's your fault and the right absolutely does not want to help you. It doesn't matter how you ended up like that, they are going to blame you. Even if you were born into a bad situation, it's your fault and the right doesn't want to help. They just don't believe in having any kind of social safety net.

And that makes no sense to me.

Look at the ultimate result of that idea.

If there was no help for the disadvantaged, and no minimum wage, nothing but the capitalist free market, well then we would have all these destitute poor people who live in shanty towns near the dump, at the edge of town, where ever, it would be like a breeding ground for terrible disease and crime. And the right's answer to that would be more cops and walls and prisons. And the problem with that would be paying for it all.

It's like, if you don't want to set up and pay for a really good education system (which we do not have) then you have to pay for prisons.

You're not getting out of paying significant taxes, that's all there is to it. The thing to do is just accept it and move on.
 
PoliTalker said:
Basically, the way I see it, the left cares about other people. The right only cares about self.

That's really it.

If you can take care of yourself the right is fine with you.

If you can't, then it's your fault and the right absolutely does not want to help you. It doesn't matter how you ended up like that, they are going to blame you. Even if you were born into a bad situation, it's your fault and the right doesn't want to help. They just don't believe in having any kind of social safety net.

And that makes no sense to me.

Look at the ultimate result of that idea.

If there was no help for the disadvantaged, and no minimum wage, nothing but the capitalist free market, well then we would have all these destitute poor people who live in shanty towns near the dump, at the edge of town, where ever, it would be like a breeding ground for terrible disease and crime. And the right's answer to that would be more cops and walls and prisons. And the problem with that would be paying for it all.

It's like, if you don't want to set up and pay for a really good education system (which we do not have) then you have to pay for prisons.

You're not getting out of paying significant taxes, that's all there is to it. The thing to do is just accept it and move on.
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FWIW, you are creating straw men about positions that others hold. Nothing wrong with disagreeing with the positions of others but when you resort to lying about them...
 
PoliTalker said:
It's like the right wants to pretend we don't live in a society.

Except we do.
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They are members of the Cult of the Individualist. It permeates and poisons our culture. It's the "I got mine so fuck you and get your hands off" mentality. It's the "I managed to get an education and job w/o help so why don't YOU?" myth. It's the blinders that doesn't allow them to see that everything we have today -- highways/bridges/roads, clean water delivery systems, the electric grid, decent food that is (mostly) free of contaminants, public schools, public universities, museums, libraries, public health departments, police & fire and EMS personnel -- was paid for by those who came before us. We were wiser back then. We knew that it takes all of us to accomplish and maintain a civilization and society with a high standard of living.
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
They are members of the Cult of the Individualist. It permeates and poisons our culture. It's the "I got mine so fuck you and get your hands off" mentality. It's the "I managed to get an education and job w/o help so why don't YOU?" myth. It's the blinders that doesn't allow them to see that everything we have today -- highways/bridges/roads, clean water delivery systems, the electric grid, decent food that is (mostly) free of contaminants, public schools, public universities, museums, libraries, public health departments, police & fire and EMS personnel -- was paid for by those who came before us. We were wiser back then. We knew that it takes all of us to accomplish and maintain a civilization and society with a high standard of living.
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Many folks agree with what you just wrote. The basis being American government actions in the economy is what made this country so great. Many others believe it’s the ingenuity and entrepreneurship of the American people which have driven us to heights we enjoy.

You referenced people getting theirs and saying f the others. If we think about it that’s really what baby boomers have done to millennials. You can see in many venues such as entitlements, cost of education and housing among others. Boomers are about me, me, me on those issues. And far be it for me to stick up for millennials but it’s true.
 
cawacko said:
Many folks agree with what you just wrote. The basis being American government actions in the economy is what made this country so great. Many others believe it’s the ingenuity and entrepreneurship of the American people which have driven us to heights we enjoy.
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As is true with most things, this isn't an either/or thing. The combination of the two -- ingenuity and entrepreneurship PLUS government policies and regulations -- are what has given us one of the finest lifestyles of people anywhere.

You referenced people getting theirs and saying f the others. If we think about it that’s really what baby boomers have done to millennials. You can see in many venues such as entitlements, cost of education and housing among others. Boomers are about me, me, me on those issues. And far be it for me to stick up for millennials but it’s true.
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Explain further, please. I do agree that my generation ("Boomers") has pretty much fucked up everything as far as the government goes. Higher education costs are insane and out-of-control. I blame that on govt. policies that treat for-profit colleges the same as others when it comes to awarding student loans and grants, w/o little to no regulation in place to ensure that those institutions are legit. We haven't done jack about soaring medical costs and the payment system for that, either. The entitlement thing is something else. I sense that you calling Social Security and Medicare "entitlements"? Guess what? Us Boomers spent a lot of time bitterly bitching as well about the $$ deducted from our paychecks -- especially those of us who were struggling to get by -- for our parents' generation to live high on the hog, so we thought. Nothing like chugging to work in your old beater, fretting over how you're going to make the next mortgage payment, only to get stuck behind a $100G+ RV driven by some blue-hairs to put you in the mood for revolution, am I right? lol Now that I'm in that blue-hair age group, I realize that we put into the system for 40+ years not so those old farts could drive around flaunting their RVs, but so that we would have something besides what we managed to save on our own for retirement. Those old farts were the lucky ones -- most of them had pensions in addition to their social security. Unless we paid into a 401(k), stashed $$ in CDs or an IRAs, we're hosed. No more employer pensions like in the old days. Ex.: My dad retired in 1978 after working 38 years for the same company. He got a pension. He got social security. His retirement benefits included company-paid health insurance. He was 60 when he retired. Fast forward to now. Mr. Owl retired when he was 60. He has two small pensions. Not old enough yet to collect social security. No employer-paid health insurance either. Thankfully Mr. Owl is a skilled investor and lived a thrifty lifestyle that did not include having children, so he was able to stash much of his income (31 years with the same company -- extraordinary for these times, eh?) into investments. But he is and will be paying out-of-pocket for health insurance until he turns 65.

Who, exactly, are the "millennials", what age group?
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
They are members of the Cult of the Individualist. It permeates and poisons our culture. It's the "I got mine so fuck you and get your hands off" mentality. It's the "I managed to get an education and job w/o help so why don't YOU?" myth. It's the blinders that doesn't allow them to see that everything we have today -- highways/bridges/roads, clean water delivery systems, the electric grid, decent food that is (mostly) free of contaminants, public schools, public universities, museums, libraries, public health departments, police & fire and EMS personnel -- was paid for by those who came before us. We were wiser back then. We knew that it takes all of us to accomplish and maintain a civilization and society with a high standard of living.
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^And this is a prime example of why I still come to this forum, and bother to wade through all the girlish gossip, horseshit innuendo, bigotry, xenophobia, self-styled armchair experts, and tepid mediocrity. To find little gems like this written by my friends, buddies, esteemed peers, and other higher life forms.
 
Cypress said:
^And this is a prime example of why I still come to this forum, and bother to wade through all the girlish gossip, horseshit innuendo, bigotry, xenophobia, self-styled armchair experts, and tepid mediocrity. To find little gems like this written by my friends, buddies, esteemed peers, and other higher life forms.
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Well... damn. Thanks, Cypress. I must confess though that I do my share of girlish gossip and putting down idiots in a not-so-nice way. lol
 
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