black card + holyroller card =vick

Damocles said:
I thought your point was I would have heard of him because he had been in the news for some crime. Not that I wouldn't have heard of him.

I have not heard of this "Pacman" person until today, reading this thread.
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My point is that he wasn't famous or all that well known, but his offenses are spread all over the news, as are the offenses of Bengal players, and others. So not being famous is not an excuse foir why Olsen and his crimes, which are worse than some I mentioned, are not simialrly broadcast as "what's wrong with sports and rich athletes."
 
blackascoal said:
Pacman Jones isn't an icon for the NFL. Ron Artest is not an icon for the NBA.

I'm not accusing you of racism. I'm pointing out that there is selective indignation, and Imus hardly makes the argument "fall flat." Imus wasn't accused of any crime.

How about you use the cases I cited to make the argument fall flat.
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bac, the selective indignation is not because of Vick's race, it's because of his celebrity status. Imus definatly does refute the argument that it is about race. He didn't even commit a crime and he was all over the news and people hated him for words he said. In my oppinion, he deserved the treatment he got. Fired and now has a lawsuit against him for defamation. He'll settle out of court on that I'm sure.

Pacman may not have been an icon, but he was a 1st round draft pick in 2005, going 6th overall. Returned 3 punts for touchdown. He was much better at his sport than this Scott Olson, who can't even reach a .500 record. His celebrity status is much higher than Olson's.

By picking and choosing what things to look at, you aren't giving a reasonable outlook and can easily paint a picture using the data you want to use.
 
blackascoal said:
My point is that he wasn't famous or all that well known, but his offenses are spread all over the news, as are the offenses of Bengal players, and others. So not being famous is not an excuse foir why Olsen and his crimes, which are worse than some I mentioned, are not simialrly broadcast as "what's wrong with sports and rich athletes."
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Well, I failed to hear of him on the news either.
 
blackascoal said:
"A shady past" .. OLSEN HAS A HISTORY OF VIOLENCE.

My, how all those Vick hating self-righteous moralists who spouted about the law and how breaking the law should warrant the wrath of God, and about "role models" and what about the kids, and the responsibilities of sports athletes to live the up and up .. now ignore or sing a quite different tune about Olsen, a man with a violent history including evading and attacking the police .. just as they ignored the crimes of Heatly who drove more than 100mph down a residential street killing his teammate .. yet no one talks about "role models" or children, not even the ones he could have killed.

Now let's talk about levels of "fame" although most people couldn't tell you what position Pacman Jones plays or what team he's on but his crimes must be broadcast because he's a role model and what about the children and what about the law.

It's the most obvious racist bullshit possible and white Americans play right along with it, never questioning it, always excusing it.
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As a white american, I say, screw you on this one bac. He's a sick dogfighting freak.
 
I did not even know Vic was black untill a week or so ago...I still thought he was detestable.
He is in the entertainment industry of course it will be a hubub.
 
OK, we're going back a few years now, but not so many. BAC, do you remember when Tiger won the Master's for the first time? Do you remember an outrageous comment (and it was, I wanted to punch the guy out myself!) made by Fuzzy Zoeller, another golfer on the tour, about the change they'd have to make in the menu for the Masters' celebratory dinner? He claimed that he was joking, and perhaps in his own mind he was, but in the very best light possible he showed monumentally poor judgment. Tiger showed himself to be possessed of a grace and maturity far beyond his years in the way that he handled it, but he shouldn't ever have had to.

Fuzzy Zoeller immediately lost his fairly lucrative endorsement contract with, I believe, K-Mart, and I don't think he ever played on the mainstream tour again. He may now be playing in the Seniors' tour but he's pretty much been persona non grata since his comment that day. Rightly so.

This incident involved nothing illegal, but it certainly made national headlines for several days at the time. And Zoeller's career, what there was of it, was in tatters.

Bobby Knight was vilified (and I agree with that, too; remember his interview with Jeremy Schaap?) following his last straw dismissal from Indiana.

Steve Garvey managed to draw both media attention and heavy public censure because of his behavior.

I don't know as much about sports as you do, but things aren't really as divided as you seem to suggest.

Artest was on the edge/ he was a loose cannon and his tearing into the stands was the last straw with the Pistons.

I'm not really a football fan so don't know much about too many players. I liked Vick until this, though.
 
Thorn said:
OK, we're going back a few years now, but not so many. BAC, do you remember when Tiger won the Master's for the first time? Do you remember an outrageous comment (and it was, I wanted to punch the guy out myself!) made by Fuzzy Zoeller, another golfer on the tour, about the change they'd have to make in the menu for the Masters' celebratory dinner? He claimed that he was joking, and perhaps in his own mind he was, but in the very best light possible he showed monumentally poor judgment. Tiger showed himself to be possessed of a grace and maturity far beyond his years in the way that he handled it, but he shouldn't ever have had to.

Fuzzy Zoeller immediately lost his fairly lucrative endorsement contract with, I believe, K-Mart, and I don't think he ever played on the mainstream tour again. He may now be playing in the Seniors' tour but he's pretty much been persona non grata since his comment that day. Rightly so.

This incident involved nothing illegal, but it certainly made national headlines for several days at the time. And Zoeller's career, what there was of it, was in tatters.

Bobby Knight was vilified (and I agree with that, too; remember his interview with Jeremy Schaap?) following his last straw dismissal from Indiana.

Steve Garvey managed to draw both media attention and heavy public censure because of his behavior.

I don't know as much about sports as you do, but things aren't really as divided as you seem to suggest.

Artest was on the edge/ he was a loose cannon and his tearing into the stands was the last straw with the Pistons.

I'm not really a football fan so don't know much about too many players. I liked Vick until this, though.
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I do remember the incidents you've pointed out, which you've correctly assessed.

My argument was not to imply that nothing has been done to bridge racial division, but that not enough has been done. There still remains gaping holes in perceptions tha adversly affect the African-American community. There still remains media-driven selective indignation and outrage that angers the hell out of many, myself included. Even among those who acknowledge the glaringly obvious disparity, it's like "oh well, that's the way it is."

I recognize that I'm perhaps in the wrong foum for this conversation, but it is a topic of angry conversation within the black community.

Appreciate your thoughts.
 
blackascoal said:
I do remember the incidents you've pointed out, which you've correctly assessed.

My argument was not to imply that nothing has been done to bridge racial division, but that not enough has been done. There still remains gaping holes in perceptions tha adversly affect the African-American community. There still remains media-driven selective indignation and outrage that angers the hell out of many, myself included. Even among those who acknowledge the glaringly obvious disparity, it's like "oh well, that's the way it is."

I recognize that I'm perhaps in the wrong foum for this conversation, but it is a topic of angry conversation within the black community.

Appreciate your thoughts.
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I find it fascinating and educational. There is nothing wrong with talking about it on this forum.
 
Darla said:
I know. It was like a car accident. You just couldn't look away. :)
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You both should admit, you were very curious as to what goes on there. Unlike a girls restroom, we don't talk about our dates in there, nor do we ever have to ask, "Are you in line?"
 
some ladies rooms have couches and lots of mirrors in them.

Worked as a janitor part time once upon a time...
talked and sang to myself too. it just goes with the job.
 
uscitizen said:
some ladies rooms have couches and lots of mirrors in them.

Worked as a janitor part time once upon a time...
talked and sang to myself too. it just goes with the job.
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LOL, o ... so you were a janitor huh ???? ya right you know your just a dirty old man!! j/k
 
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