Branch Davidians

Beefy said:
It doesn't jive with the videos of the scene, and the facts. They can say what they say, but it is inconsistent with the videotaped history of the actual event.

This is almost Orwell shit. There it is on tape, and the government saying no, its not there, and for the most part, the masses accepting it.

Seriously, do some independent research, not just the documentaries that were made, but the news footage, the negotiation tapes, the use of the military to storm a private church which is patently illegal.
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In a police state anything the govt does is legal.
 
Beefy said:
Not even close. It was a political manuever that resulted in the burning deaths of over 20 children and 60 adults.

Watch "Rules of Engagement" and "Waco - A New Revelation", it may surprise you to learn the details of how the government committed this atrocity.
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What exactly were they going to gain from this whole situation?

Im not saying there was NO cover up by the agents themselves but what was the gov going to gain from this raid?
 
Desh said:
What exactly were they going to gain from this whole situation?

Im not saying there was NO cover up by the agents themselves but what was the gov going to gain from this raid?
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Umm Pandering to the religious right ?
 
Beefy said:
All I'm saying is that if you look deeper into this thing, it was a true travesty and failure of the government that didn't have to end the way it did. The negotiation tapes are on the internets. Listen to them.
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I have no doubt it was an all around clusterfuck.

What I am having trouble believing, is that all the ATF agensts, and all the forensic and arson experts lied under oath. That would be one hell of a conspiracy. I'm going with the experts, that the Branch Davidians lite themselves on fire. Not the government.

Now, as to question of overly aggresive government tactics, and abuse of government power, I'm still open to those as legitimate questions.
 
Cypress said:
I always felt really bad for the kids, and the innocent adults who died.

I never could muster much pity for the Branch Davidians that gunned down the four ATF agents who showed up with a warrant.
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That is garbage. it never happened.
 
Beefy said:
The ATF stormed the compound, guns blazing to kill the dogs and ended up killing six Davidians in the raid. And when do you excecute a search warrant with 100 armed and trigger happy federal agents?

If a bunch of armed men came to my house guns firing and all that shit, I would defend myself as well. It didn't have to be that way.
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Where are you guys getting this stuff. That never happened either.
 
Cypress said:
Unless the forensic and arson investigators are all lying, the Branch Davidians started the fire.
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Frontline PBS:

Although several of the surviving Branch Davidians insist that they did not start the fire, a panel of arson investigators concluded that the Davidians were responsible for igniting it, simultaneously, in at least three different areas of the compound. Unless they were deliberatley set, the probability of the three fires starting almost simultaneously was highly unlikely, according to fire experts. Furthermore, the videotapes show the use of accelerants that strongly increased the spread of the fire. Although one Branch Davidian stated that a FBI tank had tipped over a lantern, videotapes show that the tank had struck the building a minute and a half before the fire began. Also some of the surviving Davidians' clothing showed evidence of lighter fluid and other accelerants. In addition, FBI listening devices seemed to establish that the Davidians were overheard making statements such as, "Spread the fuel," some six hours before the fires began. (Joint Hearing of the Crime Subcommittee July 1995.)

This is correct eccept the first sentnce. the ones who said they didn't start the fire, were not present in the building when it went up, which is why they survived, and they couldn't possibly know what happened inside except by guestimation.
 
Desh said:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/waco/topten.html#branch

I think this is a pretty fair look at the question in the case.
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I'm not sure if we should trust a government sponsored media outlet when it was a government agency that should be investigated. I find it incredibly odd that there were so many video records and missing information that was once there but is now gone. Incredibly odd that some of the things they said they didn't do, are videotaped. What was there to gain for the ATF?

Who knows, but they obviously wanted publicity, or else they wouldn't have tipped off so many news reporters beforehand.
 
These people thought the end of the world was nie.

It was self fullfilling prophecy on their part.
 
yeah they had already missed the comet....

Nutcases abound and seem to clump together.

Kinda like on here ?
 
Yeah, and in 1999 the FBI admitted that the testimony they gave to the Danforth Commitee was false, and admitted that they did use Flite-Rite pyrotechnic grenades. It's kind of hard to believe anything the government has to say on this.

They may have been one group of weird people, but that is no reason to apologize for the government's major screw up on this case. We might never know the actual truth because they tryed to cover their asses any way they can, and made it obvious they did something they shouldn't have as well.
 
DigitalDave said:
Yeah, and in 1999 the FBI admitted that the testimony they gave to the Danforth Commitee was false, and admitted that they did use Flite-Rite pyrotechnic grenades. It's kind of hard to believe anything the government has to say on this.

They may have been one group of weird people, but that is no reason to apologize for the government's major screw up on this case. We might never know the actual truth because they tryed to cover their asses any way they can, and made it obvious they did something they shouldn't have as well.
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This.
 
No doubt things were done wrong .

I just dont think it was this big consperiacy to kill loonies.

It was a shittily planned raid that went very badly.

The people in the house could have ended it at any time and sued the shit out of the government.
 
Desh said:
No doubt things were done wrong .

I just dont think it was this big consperiacy to kill loonies.

It was a shittily planned raid that went very badly.

The people in the house could have ended it at any time and sued the shit out of the government.
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The conspiracy was in the coverup.
 
DigitalDave said:
Yeah, and in 1999 the FBI admitted that the testimony they gave to the Danforth Commitee was false, and admitted that they did use Flite-Rite pyrotechnic grenades. It's kind of hard to believe anything the government has to say on this.

They may have been one group of weird people, but that is no reason to apologize for the government's major screw up on this case. We might never know the actual truth because they tryed to cover their asses any way they can, and made it obvious they did something they shouldn't have as well.
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Like I said, I don't doubt there may have been a lot of CYA and misleading.

But, this still has nothing to do with the original contention.

And Independent Prosector (A Republican by the way) concluded that the Davidians lit themselves on fire. The government didn't start the fire.


I don't buy tin foil hat conspiracies until credible evidence and expert testimony is provided.
 
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