Bravely Drawing Mohammed...

[blackascoal]

BAC, your whole approach to this issue is intellectually meritless. Any respect for free speech or the right to criticize powerful institutions goes right out the window for you. You frame the danger of criticizing islam as another reason why it shouldn't be criticized, instead of correctly interpreting that as a symptom of the problem which needs to be corrected.

As someone who has spent most of my adult life critcizing powerful institutions, I suggest that your comment is meritless.

There is a distinct difference between free speech and intelligent speech.

As I've said, he has the right to paint whatever he wants, but what he painted is a long ass way from brave or intelligent. Don't confuse the argument or hide behind "free speech" which is not the question here.

What needs to be corrected is the basis of the problem .. which requires actual thinking far beyond an 8th grade depiction of a spiritual leaders head on a dog.

Muslims JUSTIFIABLY believe they are under attack by aryan christian nations and all this bozo has done is enflame an already flammatory environment.

This may have escaped you, but not those of us who have loved ones in Iraq and Afghanistan SURROUNDED by followers of Islam .. none of us want to see the hell they are trapped in become even worse because some asshole decides he needs attention.

There are areas where Islam should be criticized, and I do, just as there are areas where Christianity and Judaism should be criticized, and I do, but rational people find more constructive ways to make their point about any particular religion with respect to those who believe that bullshit.

Most people, even in America, don't want to talk about religion which is considered off-limits .. even in America.

 

[Litmus]

As someone who has spent most of my adult life critcizing powerful institutions, I suggest that your comment is meritless.

There is a distinct difference between free speech and intelligent speech.

As I've said, he has the right to paint whatever he wants, but what he painted is a long ass way from brave or intelligent. Don't confuse the argument or hide behind "free speech" which is not the question here.

What needs to be corrected is the basis of the problem .. which requires actual thinking far beyond an 8th grade depiction of a spiritual leaders head on a dog.

Muslims JUSTIFIABLY believe they are under attack by aryan christian nations and all this bozo has done is enflame an already flammatory environment.

This may have escaped you, but not those of us who have loved ones in Iraq and Afghanistan SURROUNDED by followers of Islam .. none of us want to see the hell they are trapped in become even worse because some asshole decides he needs attention.

There are areas where Islam should be criticized, and I do, just as there are areas where Christianity and Judaism should be criticized, and I do, but rational people find more constructive ways to make their point about any particular religion with respect to those who believe that bullshit.

Most people, even in America, don't want to talk about religion which is considered off-limits .. even in America.

It is intelligent to illustrate the intolerance and theocracy of islamicists by drawing pictures of mohammed.

According to your logic, Rosa just shoulda have stayed on the back of the bus, because doing otherwise is just too risky and pointless. You're a sham. you wouldn't recognize real rebellion if it came and freed you from your hatred and limited dichotomous thinking.

 

[Litmus]

This is a noble act of rebellion, perpetrated in the name of freedom.

 

[Epicurus]

By this logic, Damo, Bush made a "brave" decision in invading Iraq. It was vastly unpopular and cost many lives, none of them Bush's. I just don't think starting a fight and letting someone else take the hit for you is really brave.

 

[Damocles]

By this logic, Damo, Bush made a "brave" decision in invading Iraq. It was vastly unpopular and cost many lives, none of them Bush's. I just don't think starting a fight and letting someone else take the hit for you is really brave.

Being part of the force in Iraq would be brave, ordering an invasion would not. This guy isn't just "letting somebody else take the hit". He is in danger of losing his life.

 

[Epicurus]

Being part of the force in Iraq would be brave, ordering an invasion would not. This guy isn't just "letting somebody else take the hit". He is in danger of losing his life.

Has anyone died from the riots? Yes.

Has he been among them? No.

 

[Damocles]

Has anyone died from the riots? Yes.

Has he been among them? No.

Is there a direct "contract" on his life? Yes.

It is in answer to that threat that he continued to draw the cartoons, the riots have not continued. They were short-lived, the danger is now to himself.

Were there people harmed during riots after Rosa Park's action? Should she have not done the act?

 

[Epicurus]

Do you think he would be so willing to proclaim this to the world if he was writing more cartoons in Afghanistan on a dark street corner alone at night?

Fuck no. It's one thing to do it from Denmark or Sweden. It's another entirely to be on the ground in Kabul and dealing with the direct ramifications of it.

 

[Damocles]

Do you think he would be so willing to proclaim this to the world if he was writing more cartoons in Afghanistan on a dark street corner alone at night?

Fuck no. It's one thing to do it from Denmark or Sweden. It's another entirely to be on the ground in Kabul and dealing with the direct ramifications of it.

I don't even know if he wouldn't be a Muslim had he been born in such a place.

However, if you have a hit on you it certainly isn't a nice super-safe position to be in.

Much like Salman Rushdie, it certainly isn't an enviable position to be in.

 

[blackascoal]

It is intelligent to illustrate the intolerance and theocracy of islamicists by drawing pictures of mohammed.

According to your logic, Rosa just shoulda have stayed on the back of the bus, because doing otherwise is just too risky and pointless. You're a sham. you wouldn't recognize real rebellion if it came and freed you from your hatred and limited dichotomous thinking.

I knew better than to attempt to engage in a sane conversation with you, but you started out as if you had a brain .. so I thought I'd give it a shot.

You are indeed brainless and your attempt to make a comparison with Rosa Parks with a picture of a man with a dogs body proves your inability to join in conversation with grown-ups.

On top of your ridiculous attempt at logic .. how the fuck does a right-wing asswipe like you who has never lifted a finger for the injustice Ms. Parks fought against, deem yourself worthy to call her "Rosa" ??

Pardon me sir, but I was engaged in conversation with a thinking adult, and I won't make the mistake of assuming that you're anything else but an idiot asswipe again.

My bad.

 

[Litmus]

I knew better than to attempt to engage in a sane conversation with you, but you started out as if you had a brain .. so I thought I'd give it a shot.

Blah blah blah. Bottom line, I've whipped your ass, idiotboy.

You are indeed brainless and your attempt to make a comparison with Rosa Parks with a picture of a man with a dogs body proves your inability to join in conversation with grown-ups.

No. It's another example where a minor act carries with it a greater social significance.

On top of your ridiculous attempt at logic .. how the fuck does a right-wing asswipe like you who has never lifted a finger for the injustice Ms. Parks fought against, deem yourself worthy to call her "Rosa" ??

Pardon me sir, but I was engaged in conversation with a thinking adult, and I won't make the mistake of assuming that you're anything else but an idiot asswipe again.

My bad.

So now you whip out the adhominem attack, just to make sure you fail in presenting a persuasive argument.. I would have chosen a different tactic.

 

[blackascoal]

Is there a direct "contract" on his life? Yes.

It is in answer to that threat that he continued to draw the cartoons, the riots have not continued. They were short-lived, the danger is now to himself.

Were there people harmed during riots after Rosa Park's action? Should she have not done the act?

You're kidding

You mean you can't tell the difference between a courageous stand against injustice that led to the Civil Rights Era and an attempt to denigrate a spiritual leader that can only lead to unrest?

That's interesting and unexpected from you.

 

[Litmus]

You're kidding

You mean you can't tell the difference between a courageous stand against injustice that led to the Civil Rights Era and an attempt to denigrate a spiritual leader that can only lead to unrest?

That's interesting and unexpected from you.

Your dishonest attempts at reframing the issue have failed. This was a courageous expression against a totalitarian faith.

 

[Damocles]

You're kidding

You mean you can't tell the difference between a courageous stand against injustice that led to the Civil Rights Era and an attempt to denigrate a spiritual leader that can only lead to unrest?

That's interesting and unexpected from you.

I can tell the similarities in coersion, that you cannot is interesting.

Amazingly, I started this all as tongue in cheek... "Bravely Drawing Mohammed"... It was dry sarcasm. It has been fun arguing this position though. You always learn more when you argue a position that isn't yours to begin with.

Stragely I can see bravery in even attackers flying planes into buildings. I can see it from somebody standing up to coersion of any kind. It would be brave of the US to reject all those special protections that take from us our civil liberties. Even those of free speech. The "it's just dumb" argument doesn't change that it is a practice in free speech, that you don't like the message doesn't change it either. Nor does it take away from the bravery inherent in a stance against forced coersion.

 

[Epicurus]

I'm not going to dive into the Rosa Parks analogy, but I will say that it shows both the cartoonist's personal bravery and a disregard for the safety of others. Hopefully he does not realize the consequences of his own actions, though I don't see how that is possible.

It is not helping. The Muslim world isn't standing in awe at our support of free speech, they are rioting and furious and our soldiers suffer for it.

 

[Damocles]

I'm not going to dive into the Rosa Parks analogy, but I will say that it shows both the cartoonist's personal bravery and a disregard for the safety of others. Hopefully he does not realize the consequences of his own actions, though I don't see how that is possible.

Exactly. Regardless of the consequences of his actions it takes courage to stand against threats to your life. That he chose this stance on this particular thing shows both a disregard of others as well as a personal bravery. I do not say he is a hero, merely courageous.

It is not helping. The Muslim world isn't standing in awe at our support of free speech, they are rioting and furious and our soldiers suffer for it.

They are no longer rioting for it, they did riot over it but they haven't for quite some time. Pretty much all the danger in this action currently is his.

 

[Litmus]

I'm not going to dive into the Rosa Parks analogy, but I will say that it shows both the cartoonist's personal bravery and a disregard for the safety of others. Hopefully he does not realize the consequences of his own actions, though I don't see how that is possible.

It is not helping. The Muslim world isn't standing in awe at our support of free speech, they are rioting and furious and our soldiers suffer for it.

Oh shut up. If that's the case then rosa is responsible for people hurt in any riot of the 50s 60s or 70s.

It is helping. It illustrates the totalitarian intolerance of our enemies in the war on terror, it illustrates why they must be defeated. We shouldn't just SHUT UP because the going is tough. Screw you and your appeasement-oriented cowardice.

Swing low, sweet charioooo ot coming for to carry me home......

 

[Epicurus]

Oh shut up. If that's the case then rosa is responsible for people hurt in any riot of the 50s 60s or 70s.

Just finished saying that I'm not getting into that, can your dumb ass not read either?

It is helping. It illustrates the totalitarian intolerance of our enemies in the war on terror, it illustrates why they must be defeated.

No actually it's not helping. You can tell yourself that as many times as you want but it won't change reality. This does nothing but provoke violence which will then be used as an excuse by our government to curtail our personal freedoms yet again.

If you think it is so brave and so helpful go to Afghanistan or Iraq or Iran and shout it from the rooftops that you are going to be mocking their God. That would actually be brave, instead of sketching out a degrading cartoon from the safety of a compound in Scandanavia while US soldiers and Iraqi civilians die for it.

Coward dipshit.

 

[Litmus]

Just finished saying that I'm not getting into that, can your dumb ass not read either?

you're into it because you're implying it, dipshit. We don't go for that "im not saying that" shit here, ok, keeeeeemosahbee?

No actually it's not helping.

It is helping in the all important task of illustrating the difference between tolerance and intolerance.

You can tell yourself that as many times as you want but it won't change reality. This does nothing but provoke violence which will then be used as an excuse by our government to curtail our personal freedoms yet again.

And miss Rosa just got the coloreds all "uppity", right, nazi fuck?

If you think it is so brave and so helpful go to Afghanistan or Iraq or Iran and shout it from the rooftops that you are going to be mocking their God. That would actually be brave, instead of sketching out a degrading cartoon from the safety of a compound in Scandanavia while US soldiers and Iraqi civilians die for it.


Coward dipshit.

Now there's brave and then there's stupid. Which one are you?

 

[Epicurus]

you're into it because you're implying it, dipshit. We don't go for that "im not saying that" shit here, ok, keeeeeemosahbee?

You can 'go for' whatever you want. I can tell you to fuck off and do what I want, also.

And miss Rosa just got the coloreds all "uppity", right, nazi fuck?


Now there's brave and then there's stupid. Which one are you?

I gotta hand it to you, if you're gonna make a stupid post you might as well go balls to the wall and you certainly accomplished it here.