britain saved the USA during ww2

[DamnYankee]

Yes but almost all of them were deployed in the Pacific. And without the British colonials we would probably not have been able to take the Pacific Islands, as the colonials took up many Japanese land divisions.

Do you think that the Emperor would not have surrendered after Nagasaki if the Brits weren't involved?

 

[christiefan915]

Mommy to the rescue!

You all were just too stupid to not understand Tom's clear and concise meaning.

LOL. The obsession continues...

 

[Epicurus]

I think the US contribution was the least in terms of taking down Germany. Of course, without America the USSR and Britian maybe never would've taken down Japan, and would've had to settle peacefully with the Japanese empire (throwing all of the Chinese and such they had conquered into the fire in the process).

I think the US probably wouldn't have won the war alone, but could have won with only either the USSR or Britain on our side. I don't think that the USSR and Britain could have won it together with just them.

 

[cancel2 2022]

To an extent. However we still needed the British. Without their navy, we would have been unable to control the Atlantic and Pacific, and as Tom pointed out, their colonials provided great assistance to us during our pacific campaign, a fact often neglected over here.

I don't know if you are familiar with [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Slim"]William Slim[/ame] but his command was crucial in the fight to retake Burma and to stop the Japanese conquering India. The Burma campaign is often called The Forgotten War in Britain so it is hardly surprising that it is even less known in the US. I also refer to the [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chindits"]Chindits[/ame] who fought under the command of Orde Charles Wingate.

 

[cancel2 2022]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]My my, this is just like the old days on the WOT when the dyed in wool wing-nuts used to regularly hold polls like this. I guess it must harp back to the old lynch mob philosophy which apparently is still alive and well in modern America. I suppose one difference is that I’m white and not black. I can assure you that I’m not the least bit intimidated, however I chose to do battle in my own time and on my own ground. [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]So why do I assert that the US was saved by Britain in the Second World War? I guess that many Americans are not given to circumspection and alternate scenarios but I contend that if we had fallen in 1940 then it is without doubt that Germany along with Italy, Vichy France and Japan would have controlled a vast part of the world. It was really only the Brits who managed to stop the Germans from taking over North Africa, Egypt, the Middle East, India and Burma. If that had failed then who was going to stop them taking over the Indian sub-continent and maybe even Australia in league with the Japanese? Certainly if Japan had got lucky and got the US carriers as well as the warships, then the US would have been hamstrung at least long enough for them to complete the mission.[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]

Roosevelt didn’t even believe that Britain had the will to fight until the French Fleet was attacked off the coast of Algeria in July 1940 by the Royal Navy. If the Germans [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]had succeeded at [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Dunkerque and the British Expeditionary Force had been annihilated, as so nearly happened, then the French along with Italians would have had their navies intact and available to join forces with the Germans. It is also worth noting that the Royal Navy was the largest in the world in 1939 and the Axis powers would have been further emboldened by its loss. Indeed if Germany had successfully invaded Britain, unless the ships were scuttled in advance or destroyed in the battle then they in turn would have become part of the German Fleet. I contend that the Axis powers would have been in a position to control both the Atlantic and the Pacific oceans.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]The Germans, because they no longer had to worry about the Brits, could then concentrate on taking Russia, again who was going to stop them apart from the Russians who were by then totally alone? Japan attacked the Americans at Pearl Harbour because Roosevelt tried to prevent them getting oil and other resources, so what would have happened if Germany was able to supply Japan with oil via pipelines from the Middle East and the Caspian Sea as well as by sea? Japan would also have had access to Burmese oil which again was really only because the Brits prevented them getting their hands on it.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]What about the atomic bomb I hear you say? The Germans had gone down the heavy water route rather than using graphite as a moderator but explain to me how [/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]the raids on the Vermork hydroelectric plant in Norway could have happened without the Brits? The Germans were getting there and they also were working on missiles and planes that were capable of reaching the eastern seaboard. By conquering Russia they would have had access to vast quantities of Uranium. They would also been able to co-opt Russian physicists and who knows how many American physicists of German extraction would have decided to divulge their secrets to the Fatherland.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]There are many other things worth mentioning, Station X at Bletchley Park would have been silenced. When the United States joined the war, Churchill agreed with Roosevelt to pool resources, and a number of American cryptographers were posted to Bletchley Park. Whilst the British continued working on German ciphers, the Americans concentrated on Japanese ciphers. This would have been impossible if Britain had been successfully invaded and taken out. Britain also gave the Americans radar technology and jet engines. I could mention much more but that's enough for now.[/FONT]

I neglected to mention that the Japanese had plans to attack the Panama Canal. The Canal was a major trans-shipment point for war materiel essential to the Pacific theatre and it would have been a major blow to the US war effort.

http://www.historynet.com/japans-panama-canal-buster.htm/5

 

[/MSG/]

Do you think that the Emperor would not have surrendered after Nagasaki if the Brits weren't involved?

No, but I do think our Pacific campaign would not have progressed as it did without British support.

 

[/MSG/]

I don't know if you are familiar with William Slim but his command was crucial in the fight to retake Burma and to stop the Japanese conquering India. The Burma campaign is often called The Forgotten War in Britain so it is hardly surprising that it is even less known in the US. I also refer to the Chindits who fought under the command of Orde Charles Wingate.

I'm fairly familiar with the Burma operations actually. Not as much as I'd like to be, my main are of expertise is the Eastern European front.

 

[cancel2 2022]

I stand corrected... I guess I should be checking my memory.

The escort carriers are the ones I was not familiar with.... time to brush up.

Thanks.

USS Tinian (CVE-123) never took part in WW2. There were a total of twenty four Essex Class and nine Independence Class carriers constructed, however many were built after the war. At the onset of war, Japan had ten carriers and the US had six of which three operated exclusively in the Pacific theatre. All the original six US carriers were either sunk or severely disabled by the Japanese.

 

[cancel2 2022]

No, but I do think our Pacific campaign would not have progressed as it did without British support.

]]

The Battle of Midway is an excellent example of the British contribution to the Pacific war. Without the boffins at [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bletchley_park"]Bletchley Park[/ame] breaking the JN-25 naval codes, it is extremely doubtful that Admiral Nimitz would have been able to second guess Yamamoto in the way that he did.

An outpost of Bletchley Park was set up in Hong Kong in 1935, the [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far_East_Combined_Bureau"]Far East Combined Bureau[/ame] (FECB). The FECB worked on Japanese naval codes, in association with [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Tiltman"]John Tiltman[/ame] and [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hut_7"]Hut 7[/ame] at Bletchley Park. The FECB naval staff moved in 1940 to Singapore, then Colombo Ceylon, then [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilindini_Harbour"]Kilindini[/ame], [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenya"]Kenya[/ame]. They succeeded in deciphering Japanese codes with a mixture of skill and good fortune.[11] By August 1945 the Japanese merchant marine had sustained 90 per cent losses. The Army and Air Force staff went from Singapore to the [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireless_Experimental_Centre"]Wireless Experimental Centre[/ame] at Delhi, India.
Smith wrote that: Only now are the British codebreakers (like [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Tiltman"]John Tiltman[/ame], [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_Foss"]Hugh Foss[/ame] and [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Nave"]Eric Nave[/ame]) beginning to receive the recognition they deserve for breaking Japanese codes and cyphers.[12]

 

[Cancel 2018. 3]

then explain yourself....you said



taking out your statement that you have espoused this several times before....you clearly state it is a FACT that it was the brits who saved the US during ww2....nothing hypothetical about your statement and you further bolster your belief it is true by stating you have espoused this several times before....

i don't believe in the worst, that is a strawman....i am simply pointing out your very words....why don't you explain

.

 

[Damocles]

Mommy to the rescue!

You all were just too stupid to not understand Tom's clear and concise meaning.

Clearly. His awesome prowess explaining why he has asserted previously on other boards as well as this one how we were all saved by the Brits in WWII was overwhelming...

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

USS Tinian (CVE-123) never took part in WW2. There were a total of twenty four Essex Class and nine Independence Class carriers constructed, however many were built after the war. At the onset of war, Japan had ten carriers and the US had six of which three operated exclusively in the Pacific theatre. All the original six US carriers were either sunk or severely disabled by the Japanese.

and your point of the above is WHAT?

I know you probably think you are being clear again... but do elaborate... PLEASE

 

[Cancel 2018. 3]

and your point of the above is WHAT?

I know you probably think you are being clear again... but do elaborate... PLEASE

he won't....

he can't explain how he "really" meant his FACT OF THE MATTER was merely a hypo......so don't hold your breath

 

[DamnYankee]

No, but I do think our Pacific campaign would not have progressed as it did without British support.

I agree, and we obviously benefited greatly from their efforts, but we would have beat the Japanese anyway, and the Russians would have been kept at bay as well since we had The Bomb and the B29 then and they didn't.

Funny about the Russians, they got hold of one of our B29s towards the end or soon after the war and then spent a huge effort reverse engineering the thing. By the time they had copies flying we were well on our way into the jet age.

 

[Canceled1]

Clearly. His awesome prowess explaining why he has asserted previously on other boards as well as this one how we were all saved by the Brits in WWII was overwhelming...

You always know when you have his knickers in a knot when he trots out the ever-ready and totally unproveable line: "It's just like what they did, said, on the WOT."


Now he is going to paper the board with every imaginable piece about Britain saving America in WWII that is out there.

It's what he's been praying for all along.

 

[cancel2 2022]

I agree, and we obviously benefited greatly from their efforts, but we would have beat the Japanese anyway, and the Russians would have been kept at bay as well since we had The Bomb and the B29 then and they didn't.

Funny about the Russians, they got hold of one of our B29s towards the end or soon after the war and then spent a huge effort reverse engineering the thing. By the time they had copies flying we were well on our way into the jet age.

Just a few things worth noting. Two of the key personnel on The Manhattan Project namely Sir James Chadwick and [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neils_Bohr"]Niels Bohr[/ame] were only there because Britain was not eliminated from the War by the Germans.

James Chadwick who won a Nobel Prize for discovering the neutron was head of the top secret British nuclear directorate codenamed [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tube_Alloys"]Tube Alloys[/ame]
A delegation (the [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tizard_Mission"]Tizard Mission[/ame]) was sent in September 1940 to North America to exchange technology in all fields, such as [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_radar"]radar[/ame], [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jet_engines"]jet engines[/ame] and nuclear research. They also explored the possibility of relocating the British military research facilities in North America, out of reach of the German bombers. One of the key technologies handed over was the gas diffusion process for purifying uranium, using uranium hexaflouride (UF6), into weapons grade U235 without which the Little Boy bomb couid not have been developed. His work on the neutron led directly to the production of the man made elements of which plutonium is the most famous.

Niels Bohr was a brilliant Danish physicist who the British and Americans were terrified would be press ganged by the Germans into working on their nuclear programme alongside [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heisenberg"]Werner Heisenberg[/ame]. He was smuggled out of Denmark, by way of Sweden, in the bomb bay of a Mosquito fighter by the British and whisked off to Los Alamos post haste in 1943. I am just reading the book American Prometheus about Robert Oppenheimer and the Manhattan project and it tells the story of how it almost ended in tragedy as Bohr did not don his oxygen equipment as instructed, and passed out at high altitude. He would have died had not the pilot, surmising from Bohr's lack of response to intercom communication that he had lost consciousness, descended to a lower altitude for the remainder of the flight. Bohr's comment was that he had slept like a baby for the entire flight.

I contend that the Manhattan Project would have either failed or have been severely set back without the contributions of these two great men. I should also point out that the Germans would have dearly loved to get their hands on the gas diffusion technology.

 

[USFREEDOM911]

Just a few things worth noting. Two of the key personnel on The Manhattan Project namely Sir James Chadwick and Niels Bohr were only there because Britain was not eliminated from the War by the Germans.

James Chadwick who won a Nobel Prize for discovering the neutron was head of the top secret British nuclear directorate codenamed Tube Alloys
A delegation (the Tizard Mission) was sent in September 1940 to North America to exchange technology in all fields, such as radar, jet engines and nuclear research. They also explored the possibility of relocating the British military research facilities in North America, out of reach of the German bombers. One of the key technologies handed over was the gas diffusion process for purifying uranium, using uranium hexaflouride (UF6), into weapons grade U235 without which the Little Boy bomb couid not have been developed. His work on the neutron led directly to the production of the man made elements of which plutonium is the most famous.

Niels Bohr was a brilliant Danish physicist who the British and Americans were terrified would be press ganged by the Germans into working on their nuclear programme alongside Werner Heisenberg. He was smuggled out of Denmark, by way of Sweden, in the bomb bay of a Mosquito fighter by the British and whisked off to Los Alamos post haste in 1943. I am just reading the book American Prometheus about Robert Oppenheimer and the Manhattan project and it tells the story of how it almost ended in tragedy as Bohr did not don his oxygen equipment as instructed, and passed out at high altitude. He would have died had not the pilot, surmising from Bohr's lack of response to intercom communication that he had lost consciousness, descended to a lower altitude for the remainder of the flight. Bohr's comment was that he had slept like a baby for the entire flight.

I contend that the Manhattan Project would have either failed or have been severely set back without the contributions of these two great men. I should also point out that the Germans would have dearly loved to get their hands on the gas diffusion technology.

 

[Cancel 2018. 3]

Just a few things worth noting. Two of the key personnel on The Manhattan Project namely Sir James Chadwick and Niels Bohr were only there because Britain was not eliminated from the War by the Germans.

James Chadwick who won a Nobel Prize for discovering the neutron was head of the top secret British nuclear directorate codenamed Tube Alloys
A delegation (the Tizard Mission) was sent in September 1940 to North America to exchange technology in all fields, such as radar, jet engines and nuclear research. They also explored the possibility of relocating the British military research facilities in North America, out of reach of the German bombers. One of the key technologies handed over was the gas diffusion process for purifying uranium, using uranium hexaflouride (UF6), into weapons grade U235 without which the Little Boy bomb couid not have been developed. His work on the neutron led directly to the production of the man made elements of which plutonium is the most famous.

Niels Bohr was a brilliant Danish physicist who the British and Americans were terrified would be press ganged by the Germans into working on their nuclear programme alongside Werner Heisenberg. He was smuggled out of Denmark, by way of Sweden, in the bomb bay of a Mosquito fighter by the British and whisked off to Los Alamos post haste in 1943. I am just reading the book American Prometheus about Robert Oppenheimer and the Manhattan project and it tells the story of how it almost ended in tragedy as Bohr did not don his oxygen equipment as instructed, and passed out at high altitude. He would have died had not the pilot, surmising from Bohr's lack of response to intercom communication that he had lost consciousness, descended to a lower altitude for the remainder of the flight. Bohr's comment was that he had slept like a baby for the entire flight.

I contend that the Manhattan Project would have either failed or have been severely set back without the contributions of these two great men. I should also point out that the Germans would have dearly loved to get their hands on the gas diffusion technology.

quite a bit of debate for one who "claimed" he was speaking:

hypothetically

no wonder you ran from the posts that dealt with your lies about hypothetically

 

[cancel2 2022]

quite a bit of debate for one who "claimed" he was speaking:

hypothetically

no wonder you ran from the posts that dealt with your lies about hypothetically

I think that Good old Abe said it best.

When you look for the bad in mankind, expecting to find it, you usually will.

 

[/MSG/]

My offer is still open if anyone wants to borrow the book. SF found it at his library.