Brits resort to pulling own teeth

[Diuretic]

No. It's clear that people are motivated by personal profit, and we should craft systems consistent with that reality.

We need tort reform, and to return control of medical care decisions to people and doctors (not companies or the government) and we need to make it possible to price comparison shop vendor to vendor on a per procedure basis.

Some people are motivated by personal profit. Where it's appropriate that's fine. Good for butchers, bakers and candlestick makers. Not good for national health systems. National health systems work well where they are funded properly and where the system is properly managed. In post-WWII Britain it was essential for the NHS to be created. Nye Bevan created it in the Attlee Government and it was and still is a splendid idea. It needs to be funded properly, that's all.

 

[Litmus]

Some people are motivated by personal profit. Where it's appropriate that's fine. Good for butchers, bakers and candlestick makers. Not good for national health systems.

No. It is good for national health sytems.

National health systems work well where they are funded properly and where the system is properly managed. In post-WWII Britain it was essential for the NHS to be created. Nye Bevan created it in the Attlee Government and it was and still is a splendid idea. It needs to be funded properly, that's all.

Even if you give doctors more money to schedule "welfare hours" they will still prefer to schedule more "freelance work".

The point is this, when any vendor already has all the money they're getting there is no motivation to do a good job or provide even adequate service.

I reject the "moral superiority of physicians".

 

[Diuretic]

No. It is good for national health sytems.


Even if you give doctors more money to schedule "welfare hours" they will still prefer to schedule more "freelance work".

The point is this, when any vendor already has all the money they're getting there is no motivation to do a good job or provide even adequate service.

I reject the "moral superiority of physicians".

Where I live there is a pretty good balance - not perfect - between private and public systems. Somehow - and I don't know the details because I have no particular knowledge - it works. It could be by accident but there seems to be a way that doctors can work in both the public and private sectors, still get every Wednesday off to play golf and make plenty of money and yet make sure their patients - public and private - are looked after. Our system has its faults for sure. But we don't prohibit doctors from working in both sectors. Our system needs more money in the public sector but that's because of the negligence over the past 11 years of our commonwealth government.

 

[AnyOldIron]

This is basically down to greed by the dentists.

Whenever you have the head of the dental association interviewed on tv as to why so many dental surgeries are going private they cannot say anything other than dentists can make more money this way.

 

[Litmus]

Where I live there is a pretty good balance - not perfect - between private and public systems. Somehow - and I don't know the details because I have no particular knowledge - it works. It could be by accident but there seems to be a way that doctors can work in both the public and private sectors, still get every Wednesday off to play golf and make plenty of money and yet make sure their patients - public and private - are looked after. Our system has its faults for sure. But we don't prohibit doctors from working in both sectors. Our system needs more money in the public sector but that's because of the negligence over the past 11 years of our commonwealth government.

There will never be enough unless you intend to pay ABOVE market prices. And if you do that ,the ALLEGED benefits of socialized medicine are gone anyway. "Everyone gets it" has never been a successful campaign for any product of value.

 

[Damocles]

This is basically down to greed by the dentists.

Whenever you have the head of the dental association interviewed on tv as to why so many dental surgeries are going private they cannot say anything other than dentists can make more money this way.

Better take away that incentive to do well, insure that you will only get the ones who were too stupid to drop out and spend their education money where they can make money, that will make it all better.

 

[Diuretic]

This is basically down to greed by the dentists.

Whenever you have the head of the dental association interviewed on tv as to why so many dental surgeries are going private they cannot say anything other than dentists can make more money this way.

So are they just negotiating a new rate?

 

[Diuretic]

There will never be enough unless you intend to pay ABOVE market prices. And if you do that ,the ALLEGED benefits of socialized medicine are gone anyway. "Everyone gets it" has never been a successful campaign for any product of value.

If there's a single payer where does "market prices" come into play?

 

[Diuretic]

Better take away that incentive to do well, insure that you will only get the ones who were too stupid to drop out and spend their education money where they can make money, that will make it all better.

In a regulated system that doesn't happen.

 

[Damocles]

If there's a single payer where does "market prices" come into play?

If they make private practice illegal where is the incentive to do well?

 

[Damocles]

In a regulated system that doesn't happen.

It does, you just get used to lower value for lower incentive. If you can spend as much going to college and make more money at being a lawyer, why become a doctor? You take that incentive from the ones who would be your best doctors, you wind up with less than you had before.

 

[Diuretic]

If they make private practice illegal where is the incentive to do well?

You assume greed is the singular motivator. That isn't the case.

 

[Diuretic]

It does, you just get used to lower value for lower incentive. If you can spend as much going to college and make more money at being a lawyer, why become a doctor? You take that incentive from the ones who would be your best doctors, you wind up with less than you had before.

What if education isn't a commodity to be purchased?

 

[Damocles]

You assume greed is the singular motivator. That isn't the case.

It is the most effective motivator.

Some of the motivators that are not that would not be beneficial.

 

[Damocles]

What if education isn't a commodity to be purchased?

Then you have gone too far into socialism and already have gotten used to the lower value you get from such services.

 

[Diuretic]

If they make private practice illegal where is the incentive to do well?

Who said private practice should be made illegal?

 

[Diuretic]

It is the most effective motivator.

Who said so?

 

[Diuretic]

Then you have gone too far into socialism and already have gotten used to the lower value you get from such services.

That's not an answer. If education is free then the investment equation is redundant.

 

[Damocles]

Who said so?

History has said so. We have seen places where such motivation has been removed, they are not places I want to live.

 

[Damocles]

That's not an answer. If education is free then the investment equation is redundant.

It is an answer. I said time as well.

What would motivate me to spend that much time in school when the same amount would get me more money in a different profession?

If you take the largest personal motivator to go into a profession, then the ones you get will be those who either have the best or worst motivation, and many who likely would never have made it in the other system.

You wind up with Dentists/Doctors who are less than what you would have with the single largest motivator intact.