But but … isn’t fascism left-wing?

[Phantasmal]

Sort of like an agnostic Communist...

No, it’s not

The main difference is that under communism, most property and economic resources are owned and controlled by the state (rather than individual citizens); under socialism, all citizens share equally in economic resources as allocated by a democratically-elected government.Feb 2, 2021

https://www.thoughtco.com › differ...

[h=3]The Differences Between Communism and Socialism - ThoughtCo[/h]

 

[PostmodernProphet]

Minorities being second class.

thanks for proving my point.......lib'ruls can only find a similarity if they lie.......

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello Tranquillus in Exile,

The leading candidate to be next mayor of Rome, Enrico Michetti, is in trouble for praising Hitler, saying “if a country slides into chaos, you need a strong man to restore order”. (How did that work out?)
He is heavily backed by the Brothers of Italy party, considered to be heirs of Italy’s fascist movement.

Mr Michetti is the candidate of the RIGHT.

I don’t know what to think! Is fascism left-wing as JPP righties tell us, or right-wing according to Italian fascists? And is War Peace, and Ignorance Strength?

Everybody knows where fascism is coming from in the USA.

 

[NiftyNiblick]

This is an example of Fallacy of Composition using Circular Reasoning and Cherry Picking.

Fascism is definable by it's traits. Fascism has specific political positions and goals. Define these, then see if Michetti matches them. If not, then he's a Fascist in name only and not actually a fascist.

Your double talk aside, TA, things mean what they mean, and JPP denizens who want to present fascism as left wing are merely continuing to display ignorance which has already, long ago, been recognized.

 

[AProudLefty]

thanks for proving my point.......lib'ruls can only find a similarity if they lie.......

Were the Jews, Blacks, mentally retarded and gays 2nd class?

 

[PostmodernProphet]

No, it’s not

The main difference is that under communism, most property and economic resources are owned and controlled by the state (rather than individual citizens); under socialism, all citizens share equally in economic resources as allocated by a democratically-elected government.Feb 2, 2021

from your source....

Communism: All economic resources are publicly owned and controlled by the government. Individuals hold no personal property or assets.

Socialism: Individuals own personal property but all industrial and production capacity is communally owned and managed by a democratically elected government.

break that down....

Communism: All economic resources are publicly owned and controlled by the government.

Socialism: All industrial and production capacity is communally owned and managed by a democratically elected government.

obviously, the form of "communal ownership" in both instances is the state......therefore the only difference between the two is the arbitrary insertion of "democratically elected".......I recall elections in the Soviet Union and I'm sure they pretended they were democratic elections as well.....

Communism: Individuals hold no personal property or assets.

Socialism: Individuals own personal property

so the only difference is that socialists let you have a house (if you can afford it) and a bank account (though the government decides what they give you to put in it......

 

[AProudLefty]

from your source....


break that down....

obviously, the form of "communal ownership" in both instances is the state......therefore the only difference between the two is the arbitrary insertion of "democratically elected".......I recall elections in the Soviet Union and I'm sure they pretended they were democratic elections as well.....



so the only difference is that socialists let you have a house (if you can afford it) and a bank account (though the government decides what they give you to put in it......

So the families are socialists for sharing houses, properties and things? Maybe the father is a Fascist?

 

[PostmodernProphet]

Were the Jews, Blacks, mentally retarded and gays 2nd class?

only to you and only because you choose to be bigoted.....

 

[AProudLefty]

I choose to be bigoted and project it on you.

Thank you for your honesty.

 

[PostmodernProphet]

So the families are socialists for sharing houses, properties and things? Maybe the father is a Fascist?

apparently you are stupid enough to believe that families are governments........please step aside and let people with brains discuss things......

 

[AProudLefty]

apparently you are stupid enough to believe that families are governments........please step aside and let people with brains discuss things......

So parents don't govern their houses and kids?

 

[PostmodernProphet]

Thank you for your honesty.

thanks for tripping over your own tongue.......mindless fuck......I do in fact believe you are a lower class citizen.......don't know if you are black or Jewish, but you are definitely one of the ignorant demmycrats......

 

[PostmodernProphet]

So parents don't govern their houses and kids?

did you vote for your mom or your dad.......

 

[AProudLefty]

did you vote for your mom or your dad.......

Yep. But then again sometimes it doesn't work. I would go to my mom and ask if I could do something and she says go ask your dad! Then I asked dad and he says go ask your mom!

That's basically how the Congress works.

 

[Tranquillus in Exile]

Fascist leaders ranged from ultra-conservative to populist, but whatever the rhetoric they never up-ended the established socio-economic order. Instead they used it for their own ends.


Common elements of fascist ideology:

Restoring a supposed golden age from the past (make Rome etc. great again!).

Cult of personality - the leader is never wrong, fake news scribblers who question that are bad.

Extolling military virtues, hierarchy, nationalism, racial purity.

Supporting private ownership of finance and industry (except for persecuted minorities).

The last point takes us back to conservative Mr Michetti, who also said that we remember the Holocaust only because Jews own the banks.


Of course conservativism is not fascism, just as social democracy is not communism. But social democrats don’t pretend that communism is right-wing.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Okay what is right wing? The European left and right wing? American? What. Keep in mind that the concept came from France. According to them, left wing is individualism and right wing is monarchy.

Monarchies are a form of dictatorship. If the monarchy controls the economy then it is likely to one degree or another socialist as well. North Korea is more a monarchy than communist nation. You have an hereditary head-of-state who by some propaganda is of divine birth, and that monarch controls everything.

One needs to be consistent in placing various systems of government, society, and economics on some sort of scale. Defining their position by labeling alone is useless.

Fascism is on the Left because it is dictatorial, socialist (either outright or statist-Capitalist a variant), nationalist (as opposed to internationalist for Communism). On this last, you might think of Fascism as akin to a non-converting religion where Communism is a converting religion. That is Fascism seeks to elevate the nation and promotes xenophobia. Communism seeks to spread itself to every corner of the planet and promote a one-world-government.

In both cases, the state subsumes the individual, government runs the economy (even if in a fascist state the means of production is left in private hands so long as they do as the government dictates), and the government itself is a dictatorship.

 

[AProudLefty]

Monarchies are a form of dictatorship. If the monarchy controls the economy then it is likely to one degree or another socialist as well. North Korea is more a monarchy than communist nation. You have an hereditary head-of-state who by some propaganda is of divine birth, and that monarch controls everything.

The economy of North Korea is to feed that fat bastard. Now see how that worked out for him. He's thin now.

One needs to be consistent in placing various systems of government, society, and economics on some sort of scale. Defining their position by labeling alone is useless.

Socialism and Capitalism are both economic systems. Nothing to do with politics.

That is Fascism seeks to elevate the nation and promotes xenophobia. Communism seeks to spread itself to every corner of the planet and promote a one-world-government.

You've literally just described every far right folks.

In both cases, the state subsumes the individual, government runs the economy (even if in a fascist state the means of production is left in private hands so long as they do as the government dictates), and the government itself is a dictatorship.

Governments might run the economy, it still doesn't make the economic system political.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Your double talk aside, TA, things mean what they mean, and JPP denizens who want to present fascism as left wing are merely continuing to display ignorance which has already, long ago, been recognized.

You are making a definist fallacy here. You cannot define something however you want and change that definition at will. I would ask you to define how fascism is on the Right in some sort of measurable terms against other political systems.

 

[Nordberg]

Monarchies are a form of dictatorship. If the monarchy controls the economy then it is likely to one degree or another socialist as well. North Korea is more a monarchy than communist nation. You have an hereditary head-of-state who by some propaganda is of divine birth, and that monarch controls everything.

One needs to be consistent in placing various systems of government, society, and economics on some sort of scale. Defining their position by labeling alone is useless.

Fascism is on the Left because it is dictatorial, socialist (either outright or statist-Capitalist a variant), nationalist (as opposed to internationalist for Communism). On this last, you might think of Fascism as akin to a non-converting religion where Communism is a converting religion. That is Fascism seeks to elevate the nation and promotes xenophobia. Communism seeks to spread itself to every corner of the planet and promote a one-world-government.

In both cases, the state subsumes the individual, government runs the economy (even if in a fascist state the means of production is left in private hands so long as they do as the government dictates), and the government itself is a dictatorship.

Monarchies are most likely akin to right-wing dictatorships. They gather all the money and power that they can. Some, like Englands, are benign, but wasteful.
A powerful ruler will almost always be corrupted, like Mussolini and Trump.
Fascism is absolutely not left.
Can rightys not see the difference between countries they label socialistic, like Scandanavian countries and the Mussolini type rule? Fascism is righty way righty.
Fascism is a marriage between corporate power and the government, through a powerful leader. That is what Trump and the Republican party were leaning towards.

 

[NiftyNiblick]

You are making a definist fallacy here. You cannot define something however you want and change that definition at will. I would ask you to define how fascism is on the Right in some sort of measurable terms against other political systems.

We could do that, completely ignoring a 100 year old convention, or we could save the trouble and put each other on ignore.