Can employers require vaccinations as a condition of returning to work?

[Walt]

what is "reinfection"? exposure? increased viral loading? symptomatic or asymptomatic?
That is a fairly useless term.

It means that you get the illness a second time. There is some evidence that damage from the disease is cumulative, so you might have no symptoms the first time, some symptoms the second time, and die the third time.

It is important, because it says how much work we have to do to get herd immunity. If we are passing out of immunity every five months, then herd immunity is looking pretty much impossible from natural immunity.

It is hopeful that vaccines might work for longer than five months. Even when they run out, there could be booster shots to extend them. That starts making some victory possible... But it will take time.

DeSantis

DeSantis has decided that strip clubs are more important than national security.

 

[Darth Omar]

If you sequence the genes of a virus, you prove not only that it is there (present tense), but the exact type that was there. When the British later find another infection, with a different gene sequence, they can prove that the patient got it twice (rather than a relapse).

The British sequence the first infection, and then later they sequence the second infection. To do that, the British have had to sequence a lot of infections, which because of budget cuts, the USA simply cannot do. The British stayed on top of life sciences, so they can do it.

There is virtually no room for reasonable skepticism about Covid-19 reinfection. It definitely happens, and it is just plain silly to argue it does not.

There is reasonable room for debate into the specifics of reinfection. How often does it happen? After what time frame?



Are you crazy?

The data suggest that repeat infections are rare — they occurred in fewer than 1% of about 6,600 participants who had already been ill with COVID-19. But the researchers also found that people who become reinfected can carry high levels of the virus in their nose and throat, even when they do not show symptoms. Such viral loads have been associated with a high risk of transmitting the virus to others, said Hopkins.

“Reinfection is pretty unusual, so that’s good news,” says immunologist John Wherry at the University of Pennsylvania in Philadelphia. “But you’re not free to run around without a mask.”

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-00071-6
_____________

The Nature article seems to suggest reinfection won’t be a big driver lol.

Less than 1% chance of reinfection aren’t bad odds and can be easily mitigated in a population with a high rate of immunity—even with taking into account viral shedding.

That all but shouts ‘back to normal’, Alter.

 

[anatta]

It means that you get the illness a second time.

It is important, because it says how much work we have to do to get herd immunity. If we are passing out of immunity every five months, then herd immunity is looking pretty much impossible from natural immunity.

garbage. "reinfection" does not necessarily mean "illness" (Symptomatic) -yet you cling to this

There is some evidence that damage from the disease is cumulative, so you might have no symptoms the first time, some symptoms the second time, and die the third time.

ridiculous.
the more times you are exposed, the less the symptom manifest. T cells and lingering antibodies are more likely to interrupt viral loading upon re-exposure

It is hopeful that vaccines might work for longer than five months. Even when they run out, there could be booster shots to extend them. That starts making some victory possible... But it will take time.

Boosters are much easier to design then initial vaccines, much less time to field for use

DeSantis has decided that strip clubs are more important than national security.

only a dumb ass Democrat would denigrate ALL BUSINESS as "strip clubs"
You guys dont GAF about business owners - you wouldnt even condemn the riots that hurt so many
until after the DNC convention.

you are rapidly becoming a worthless waste of my time -wise up and update your COVID info as well

 

[Walt]

The data suggest that repeat infections are rare

As we mentioned before, the data is very incomplete. No one knows how rare repeat infections are. The best, most recent data is suggesting what people thought was rare is more common. That would help explain why countries that should be much closer to herd immunity than even us, are quite far away from it.

But again, no one knows for sure. The only thing we know for sure is that it is possible. Oh and Johnson who has more complete data than the USA is closing schools, something he promised he would never do... And with an election coming. Something has got him scared.

“But you’re not free to run around without a mask.”

Even your own article admits this. When we do not know, it is stupid to take unnecessary risks. If you were just risking your own health, I would not care, but you are risking our nations health.

 

[Walt]

garbage. "reinfection" does not necessarily mean "illness" (Symptomatic) -yet you cling to this

Reinfection does mean illness. It does not necessarily mean symptoms. For instance, someone who is HIV positive, has an illness, can transmit the illness, but might not have symptoms.

the more times you are exposed, the less the symptom manifest.

While that is possible... It is not likely. Each time you become ill, more damage is done to essential organs. Sooner or later, that damage presents itself as symptoms.

You are desperate to find answers that will allow you to do whatever you want. The world does not work that way.

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

Can employers require vaccinations as a condition of returning to work? It appears they can although there are a few outs as noted in the link below.

Should they be able to require vaccinations as a condition of employment? It appears that is true too since employers have an obligation to follow employee safety laws and have fiduciary responsibilities to both employees and the company.


https://www.shrm.org/resourcesandto...if-workers-refuse-a-covid-19-vaccination.aspx
As COVID-19 vaccines become available, many employers are asking if they can require employees to get vaccinated, and what they can do if workers refuse. The Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) weighed in Dec. 16 with new guidance that answers some workplace vaccination questions.

Employers may encourage or possibly require COVID-19 vaccinations, but policies must comply with the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA), Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 (Title VII) and other workplace laws, according to the EEOC.

https://www.rmwbh.com/can-texas-employers-require-employees-to-get-the-covid-19-vaccine/
yes, employers can require that employees be vaccinated once they are widely available. However, there are two main exceptions relating to disabilities and religious objections

Health care workers have been required to get vaccinated as a condition of employment for as long as I've been one, which is most of my adult life. We're also required to get tested for TB annually. Even as a mere hospice volunteer I'm required to get the flu shot (the hospice offers it for free to employees and volunteers), and a yearly TB test.

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

Reinfection does mean illness. It does not necessarily mean symptoms. For instance, someone who is HIV positive, has an illness, can transmit the illness, but might not have symptoms.

While that is possible... It is not likely. Each time you become ill, more damage is done to essential organs. Sooner or later, that damage presents itself as symptoms.

You are desperate to find answers that will allow you to do whatever you want. The world does not work that way.

Well said. All of this is true.

 

[tinfoil]

Vaccines are to prevent both getting sick and from spreading the disease. The whole herd immunity thing from what I understand. OTOH, some of the interviews I've listened to stated that people can spread the disease until they are fully immune, which can take up to 4(?) weeks after their final vaccination.

>Vaccines are to prevent both getting sick and from spreading the disease.

LOL no it doesn't. It's to develop antibodies to fight it when you get Covid. The CDC is clear. It's not to prevent you from getting sick or spreading the virus. You are just plain ignorant, you stupid branch covidian

 

[Dutch Uncle]

The short answer is yes, but the long answer is no.

Vaccines are already required for some employment. It has been legally tested, and is completely legal. If the vaccine prevents the spread, it makes sense to require the vaccine for any job where people are in contact with anyone at risk. It would be much like requiring the influenza vaccine for elder care workers.

In the current environment, good luck to any employer that tries that. It may be legal, and just common sense, but the Alt Right is violent. Any facility they can get their hands on would be burned down. We are looking at more and more right wing terrorists traveling deeper into highly productive Blue States they never felt comfortable in before.

Yes, the Alt Right has proven to be violent, but they only attack Federal buildings, not businesses AFAIK.

They'll do what Tucker or Sean say, but I think their ire would be directed at the Biden administration, not Ford or General Mills.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

>Vaccines are to prevent both getting sick and from spreading the disease.

LOL no it doesn't. It's to develop antibodies to fight it when you get Covid. The CDC is clear. It's not to prevent you from getting sick or spreading the virus. You are just plain ignorant, you stupid branch covidian

Your best thread, the one that defines you most, is the one where you declare the Mars landing is a hoax. It says it all.

 

[cordeela]

Can employers require vaccinations as a condition of returning to work? It appears they can although there are a few outs as noted in the link below.

Should they be able to require vaccinations as a condition of employment? It appears that is true too since employers have an obligation to follow employee safety laws and have fiduciary responsibilities to both employees and the company.


https://www.shrm.org/resourcesandto...if-workers-refuse-a-covid-19-vaccination.aspx
As COVID-19 vaccines become available, many employers are asking if they can require employees to get vaccinated, and what they can do if workers refuse. The Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) weighed in Dec. 16 with new guidance that answers some workplace vaccination questions.

Employers may encourage or possibly require COVID-19 vaccinations, but policies must comply with the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA), Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 (Title VII) and other workplace laws, according to the EEOC.

https://www.rmwbh.com/can-texas-employers-require-employees-to-get-the-covid-19-vaccine/
yes, employers can require that employees be vaccinated once they are widely available. However, there are two main exceptions relating to disabilities and religious objections

The issue for me is: What is sacrosanct and what is not? basic human rights should not be played with. In UK the law requires that no Employer or business or provider can discriminate on grounds of Religion - colour - race - ethnicity - Age or gender... this is set in stone. So the right NOT to take/have a vaccination should protect all people. No employer, in my view, should use the taking of a vaccination as a precursor to employment.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

A little bit of knowledge can be a dangerous thing

Agreed, which is why medical or security issues should be decided by the experts, not Sean Hannity or Tucker Carlson much less a politicians seeking to score points with his base.

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

Agreed, which is why medical or security issues should be decided by the experts, not Sean Hannity or Tucker Carlson much less a politicians seeking to score points with his base.

 

[CASPER]

The issue for me is: What is sacrosanct and what is not? basic human rights should not be played with. In UK the law requires that no Employer or business or provider can discriminate on grounds of Religion - colour - race - ethnicity - Age or gender... this is set in stone. So the right NOT to take/have a vaccination should protect all people. No employer, in my view, should use the taking of a vaccination as a precursor to employment.

Well if you were an employer and you did not have safety rules for your company you will eventually sued into bankruptcy, you know that right?

I notice none of those Rights written in stone say anything about not taking a vaccine. It is real simple, if you want to work at a company that requires a vaccine then you get it, if you don't want to take it then they will not employ you, just as you have a choice, they also have a choice.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

The issue for me is: What is sacrosanct and what is not? basic human rights should not be played with. In UK the law requires that no Employer or business or provider can discriminate on grounds of Religion - colour - race - ethnicity - Age or gender... this is set in stone. So the right NOT to take/have a vaccination should protect all people. No employer, in my view, should use the taking of a vaccination as a precursor to employment.

You don't have to get a shot. No one can force you. You are free to exercise your religious beliefs by not being vaccinated for anything.

OTOH, business owners have both a right and a responsibility to protect both their businesses and their employees. Employees who don't comply with the same rules as everyone else don't have a right to remain employees.

The Democrats passed laws protecting employees such as making accomodations for them to work at home, work different hours or be given a leave of absence until the crisis passes.

Most commonly, IMO, will be the strategy of only calling people back to work who have had the shot. No unions,no seniority, eh? Let the anti-vaxxers sit at home awaiting their turn for recall.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Health care workers have been required to get vaccinated as a condition of employment for as long as I've been one, which is most of my adult life. We're also required to get tested for TB annually. Even as a mere hospice volunteer I'm required to get the flu shot (the hospice offers it for free to employees and volunteers), and a yearly TB test.

With a lot of businesses shut down, or in health, heavily restricted access, it seems employers will have the right and responsibility to call back those who are vaccinated first and leave the non-vaccinated at home until the business is fully open.

 

[cordeela]

You don't have to get a shot. No one can force you. You are free to exercise your religious beliefs by not being vaccinated for anything.

OTOH, business owners have both a right and a responsibility to protect both their businesses and their employees. Employees who don't comply with the same rules as everyone else don't have a right to remain employees.

The Democrats passed laws protecting employees such as making accomodations for them to work at home, work different hours or be given a leave of absence until the crisis passes.

Most commonly, IMO, will be the strategy of only calling people back to work who have had the shot. No unions,no seniority, eh? Let the anti-vaxxers sit at home awaiting their turn for recall.

Thats the point I am making. I said: No employer should have the right to blackmail you by virtue of having a job. Some things are not permitted no matter what the employer thinks.

 

[Darth Omar]

As we mentioned before, the data is very incomplete. No one knows how rare repeat infections are. The best, most recent data is suggesting what people thought was rare is more common. That would help explain why countries that should be much closer to herd immunity than even us, are quite far away from it.

But again, no one knows for sure. The only thing we know for sure is that it is possible. Oh and Johnson who has more complete data than the USA is closing schools, something he promised he would never do... And with an election coming. Something has got him scared.



Even your own article admits this. When we do not know, it is stupid to take unnecessary risks. If you were just risking your own health, I would not care, but you are risking our nations health.

I’m free to do any damn thing I want so long as it’s not against the law.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Well if you were an employer and you did not have safety rules for your company you will eventually sued into bankruptcy, you know that right?

I notice none of those Rights written in stone say anything about not taking a vaccine. It is real simple, if you want to work at a company that requires a vaccine then you get it, if you don't want to take it then they will not employ you, just as you have a choice, they also have a choice.

Agreed. Adding to this; most companies were in full or partial shut down. Reopening and only recalling the vaccinated is not the same as saying the anti-vaxxers are fired. It just says they may have to wait until the crisis is over before returning to work.

Bosses can say "You're not fired, just laid off. We hope to see you see. Good luck with unemployment and Biden's stimulus bill!" Then they wait until the dumbass anti-vaxxers get other jobs.

No unions, no seniority means employers can call back people in any order they desire. Calling back the vaccinated first is logical and supported by both medical science and law.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

I’m free to do any damn thing I want so long as it’s not against the law.

Correct and I support your right to do so even if that right is to be an anti-vaxxer sitting at home on unemployment watching Sean and Tucker.