Challenging Hume to a Debate #2 - Physics of the Global Warming Faith : Is Greenhouse Effect Even Possible?

It has never been known because it is not true.
Greenhouses have been used for 2,000 years, because they work.

energy cannot be converted to heat because they aren't the same quantity kind and have different units of measure.
Stoves, ovens, space heaters, etc. turn energy into heat. Heat is thermo energy, and uses energy units.

Are you thinking of temperature? Temperature is heat over mass, and would use a slightly different unit. That being said, you can create temperature with energy also.

Heat is not anything that can somehow be contained/captured/trapped/ensnared/held/retained/enclosed/entombed.
In the real world, insulation exists. Humans have known about it for maybe a hundred thousand years.
 
Somehow I doubt he is any kind of chemist. He denies insulation can exist.
And has no clue what the laws of thermodynamics are about...
Into the Night does not deny insulation exists. @Walt is desperate to assign bogus positions to Into the Night so that @Walt will at least have something to attack, albeit not honestly. @Walt is the one who is broadcasting scientific illiteracy, including a strange belief that thermal conduction somehow occurs in the vacuum of space.

@T. A. Gardner joins @Walt in intense science denial, believing that the laws of thermodynamics permit the creation of energy out of nothing, and the decrease of entropy in closed systems, among other things.

Both @T. A. Gardner and @Walt are currently blaming Into the Night for their own confusion and lack of education, specifically because Into the Night offered to help them.
 
[misdirection deleted]
I was clear that greenhouse effect is a religious doctrine that has nothing to do with greenhouses. I further specified that greenhouse effect has never been known because it is not true. Your pivot to dishonestly imply that I was referring to greenhouses was deliberate.

Stoves, ovens, space heaters, etc. turn energy into heat.
They create heat, but nothing can convert energy to heat. You do not know what heat is.

Heat is thermo energy, and uses energy units.
Incorrect. I'll give you a hint: Energy is mesaured in joules, Heat is measured in Watts. Go figure it out.

In the real world, insulation exists.
Yes. In the real world, peanut butter exists.
 
The Moon is the same distance from the Sun as the Earth, and yet without an atmosphere is much colder.
The Moon is the same distance from the Sun as the Earth, and yet without an atmosphere is much hotter. Now let's talk about the average lunar equilibrium temperature.

Therefore gasses in an atmosphere can insulate a planet, and make it warmer.
Therefore gasses in an atmosphere provide a powerful refrigeration effect, making it much cooler. Perhaps you have noticed that the ocean is always cool to very cold, and never boils away by reaching 240F.

Or made even more simpler, my car was hot, because of the greenhouse effect.
Nope. Your car was made hot because of the same principle on which greenhouses work, i.e. convection was greatly reduced and/or practically eliminated. There is no such thing as greenhouse effect to do anything to your car, i.e. it's a phony religious doctrine that violates physics.
 
I was clear that greenhouse effect is a religious doctrine that has nothing to do with greenhouses. I further specified that greenhouse effect has never been known because it is not true. Your pivot to dishonestly imply that I was referring to greenhouses was deliberate.
Greenhouses use the greenhouse effect to keep hot. Your car gets hot because of the greenhouse effect. This is a known effect for at least 2,000 years.

Incorrect. I'll give you a hint: Energy is mesaured in joules, Heat is measured in Watts. Go figure it out.
Watts is not a measurement of heat. It is a measurement of power. Energy, such as heat energy, is measured in joules. Power is measured in watts, which is joules per second.

So watts over a period of time creates joules of heat energy.
 
Actually, both you and him deny it:
Nope. You are the one who believes that conduction occurs in the vacuum of space.

Somehow IBDa and Night believe they have outsmarted all the experts, and even the vast majority of normal people.
Somehow @Walt believes he somehow speaks for others besides himself, and that his scientific illiteracy is someone else's fault.
 
Somehow @Walt believes he somehow speaks for others besides himself, and that his scientific illiteracy is someone else's fault.
All these scientists around the world have studied this their entire professional life, and somehow you figured out they were all wrong in a few minutes?
 
All these scientists around the world have studied this their entire professional life, and somehow you figured out they were all wrong in a few minutes?
You do not speak for any of the world's smart people, much less for any scientists.

Science is correct and your religion is egregiously in error. You make a mockery of yourself by referring to your physics-violating religion as "thettled thienth!"
 
Greenhouses use the greenhouse effect to keep hot.
Nope. Greenhouses restrict convection to keep hot. Greenhouse effect is a WACKY religious doctrine that violates physics. See my signature.

Watts is not a measurement of heat.
You are done. Let me know when you find out the SI units for solar radiation, conduction and convection and we can reengage.

[Watts] is a measurement of power.
Yes it is. Is the lightbulb coming on (pun intended)?

Energy, such as heat energy, is measured in joules.
Nope. There is no such thing as "heat energy." That is a contradiction in terms, just like there is no such thing as "area volume."

Go back and re-read what I told you.

So watts over a period of time creates joules of heat energy.
That's good for a laugh at your expense. To be the same thing, it must have the exact same units of measure.
 
I am not even joking here. IBD and Night are complete wastes of time. They add nothing to the discussion.

Yes it is. Is the lightbulb coming on (pun intended)?

OK, picture you turn on a 60 watt lightbulb for one millisecond, will it create as much heat as a 60 watt lightbulb for one hour? Seriously, heat(like other forms of energy) is measured in joules. Watts measure power.

Nope. There is no such thing as "heat energy." That is a contradiction in terms, just like there is no such thing as "area volume."
It is the opposite of a contradiction. All heat is energy, so it is repeating yourself.

"heat is the thermal energy"
"Energy (from Ancient Greek ἐνέργεια (enérgeia) 'activity') is the quantitative property that is transferred to a body or to a physical system, recognizable in the performance of work and in the form of heat and light."
 
Falsifies my theory? I don't deny greenhouse effect, I simply state it's likely not CO2 driving it.
Both you and @Walt are in error, but your errors are different. You erroneously believe that there are people who "know" what the earth's average global equilibrium temperature is to any usable accuracy, and there aren't. With that said, nobody knows whether such a global average equilibrium temperature is even changing in ways unrelated to proximity to the sun, much less if it is increasing or decreasing.

@Walt , on the other hand, simply doesn't have any sort of coherent notion of what is happening beyond imagining the earth as a metaphorical greenhouse and trying to make a bowling ball fit into a coin slot. He believes that if shifting between units of measure, as convenient, will make his argument at least sound plausible, then that is what he will insist is true in the moment.
 
I am not even joking here. IBD and Night are complete wastes of time. They add nothing to the discussion.
This is because you are discussing religion while we are trying to discuss science, to which you are not being value added. You insist on discussing terms whose meanings you refuse to learn. Too funny.

Seriously, heat(like other forms of energy) is measured in joules.
Heat is not energy. Heat is not measured in Joules.

Watts measure power.
Correct. C'mon, put two and two together.

"heat is the thermal energy"
Nope. Thermal energy is a form of energy and gives us temperature.

Heat is something else. I take it that you are too stupid to learn this subject matter, am I right?
 
This is because you are discussing religion while we are trying to discuss science, to which you are not being value added. You insist on discussing terms whose meanings you refuse to learn. Too funny.


Heat is not energy. Heat is not measured in Joules.


Correct. C'mon, put two and two together.


Nope. Thermal energy is a form of energy and gives us temperature.

Heat is something else. I take it that you are too stupid to learn this subject matter, am I right?
I am not even joking here: you are so far off reality, it is not even funny. You are wasting everyone's time.

"Heat: SI unit joule"
 
Both you and @Walt are in error, but your errors are different. You erroneously believe that there are people who "know" what the earth's average global equilibrium temperature is to any usable accuracy, and there aren't. With that said, nobody knows whether such a global average equilibrium temperature is even changing in ways unrelated to proximity to the sun, much less if it is increasing or decreasing.

@Walt , on the other hand, simply doesn't have any sort of coherent notion of what is happening beyond imagining the earth as a metaphorical greenhouse and trying to make a bowling ball fit into a coin slot. He believes that if shifting between units of measure, as convenient, will make his argument at least sound plausible, then that is what he will insist is true in the moment.
I am going to make one last attempt to explain to you how the universe works, and then I am quitting. I believe you are trying to not understand, so I am betting this is a waste of my time.

Watts are joules per second. Watts are power, so watts over time is energy. So a watt hour is 3600 joules --- there are 3600 seconds in an hour. Temperature is energy over mass.

So if you run a 1,440 watt space heater for one second, you will use less energy than if you run it for an hour. Likewise, if you run a space heater in a closet for an hour, it will have a higher temperature than if you run it in a large room.
 
Both you and @Walt are in error, but your errors are different. You erroneously believe that there are people who "know" what the earth's average global equilibrium temperature is to any usable accuracy, and there aren't. With that said, nobody knows whether such a global average equilibrium temperature is even changing in ways unrelated to proximity to the sun, much less if it is increasing or decreasing.

I know there are people that can estimate it with reasonable accuracy. You on the other hand are making a reductio ad absurdum fallacy.
 
I am not even joking here: you are so far off reality, it is not even funny.
You are the one who is scientifically illiterate yet who believes himself to be a science genius. You are wasting everyone's time.

"Heat: SI unit joule" [Wikipedia link deleted]
Wikipedia is not an authoritative source and it is awash in errors. In fact, you just found another one.

You have the means to verify the correct units of measure for any given heat, and it's not joules.
 
I am going to make one last attempt to explain to you how the universe works, and then I am quitting.
I have a better idea. I will go with physics instead of your physics-violating religion. I am not a member of your church and I have no plans to join your congregation.

Watts are joules per second.
Hint: Tell me something I don't already know.

Watts are power, so watts over time is energy.
Watts is the unit for power, so Watts over time is a different unit of measure, as you noticed.

So a watt hour is 3600 joules
So you are acknowledging that 60 Watts isn't any specific quantity of energy.

Temperature is energy over mass.
Temperature is specifically thermal energy over mass.
 
Still playing dumb...... because we both know that we are not discussing the EXISTENCE of the Earth's atmosphere.

Is there ever a time when you aren't blatantly dishonest?
You are. No gas or vapor has the capability to warm the Earth, void. The atmosphere is no exception.
 
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