Challenging Hume to a Debate #2 - Physics of the Global Warming Faith : Is Greenhouse Effect Even Possible?

[Into the Night]

CO2 is a better thermal insulator,

Dead WRONG. CO2 happens to be the best conductor of heat of common gasses.
Conductive heat is not how the Earth is warmed by the Sun or cooled by the space around it.

but still allows the light through.

Depends on the frequency. CO2, like many substances, absorbs infrared light.

These are well known physical traits.

No, Wally. You are making shit up.

You could argue that the bigger system somehow counteracts it, but the basic science is beyond doubt.

You are denying science, Wally. No gas or vapor has the capability to warm the Earth. You cannot create energy out of nothing. You are ignoring the 1st law of thermodynamics again.

 

[Into the Night]

The greenhouse effect has been known of in one way or another for about 2,000 years. Light energy can enter a system, convert into heat, and be trapped. It is a proven fact.

You cannot trap heat, Wally. You cannot trap light either. You are ignoring the 2nd law of thermodynamics now.

 

[Into the Night]

We know greenhouses exist, and work.

Greenhouse roofs aren't gaseous, Wally. Greenhouses work by reducing heat.

If they violate some sort of law, then that law is wrong. The fact is they do not violate any laws, but if a law is easily disproven, then it is wrong.

Greenhouse roofs aren't gaseous, Wally. You are ignoring the Stefan-Boltzmann law and the 2nd law of thermodynamics again.

 

[Into the Night]

Can something that has no intelligence control something else? Chlorine gas will cause you to die, but it will not control whether you live or die. It makes no decisions.

So you agree with him.

 

[Into the Night]

The Moon is the same distance from the Sun as the Earth,

Basically.

and yet without an atmosphere is much colder.

The temperature of the Moon is unknown. It cannot be measured. However, thermometers on the Moon's surface have record temperatures ranging up to +260 deg F.

Therefore gasses in an atmosphere can insulate a planet, and make it warmer.

Insulation does not make anything warmer. The atmosphere is not thermal insulation.
Put a blanket on a rock, and you will not make the rock any warmer.

Or made even more simpler, my car was hot, because of the greenhouse effect.

No. You car gets hot only on sunny days during the day. At night it cools off again. Your car gets hot that way because you reduced heat, just like a greenhouse.

Light energy was able to enter the car through the windows, but the heat energy was unable to leave, because of the same windows.

Heat is not energy, Wally. You cannot trap heat.

You come along claiming insulation is not possible,

I never did, Wally.

but I have experienced it so often, I dismiss your argument.

Not my argument, Wally. You are hallucinating again.

Basically put, if a simple experiment proves something possible, it is possible.

An experiment proves nothing. You are simply trying to ignore the 1st and 2nd laws of thermodynamics and the Stefan-Boltzmann law.

 

[Into the Night]

I was wondering if Into the Night played one on TV. We can't seem to pin down what sort of "chemist" he is.

I already told you. Pay attention next time.

 

[Into the Night]

No additional thermal energy would be required.

Additional thermal energy is required to raise the temperature, Wally. You can't get around this.

The same thermal energy would just have to be insulated better.

Insulation doesn't warm anything, Wally. Putting a blanket on a rock does not make the rock warmer.

Let's return to the car. The car with the windows shut heats up, not because there is more thermal energy than the car with the windows open.

Temporarily. With the windows closed, you are reducing heat.

The difference is insulation.

A bad term for it, but yes. It does NOT stop the car from cooling off again at night.

The closed windows holds the same heat better, thereby heating up the car.

You cannot trap heat, Wally. You are ignoring the 2nd law of thermodynamics and the Stefan-Boltzmann law again.

I am actually more concerned that you think you can outsmart millions of intelligent people with a simple argument that you think they all missed. We all make logical mistakes from time to time, but this is a level of bizarre, and completely unearned narcissism.

 

[Into the Night]

Somehow I doubt he is any kind of chemist. He denies insulation can exist.

I have never denied insulation exists, Wally. You are hallucinating again.

 

[Into the Night]

And has no clue what the laws of thermodynamics are about...

I have already given you the equations, dude. Argument of the Stone fallacy.

 

[Into the Night]

We have all seen the experiment that falsifies your theory.

Cars and greenhouses do not falsify thermodynamics or the Stefan-Boltzmann law, Wally. You are just trying to falsify them using a special pleading fallacy.

We have all gotten into a hot car, and realized the greenhouse effect is real.

Insulation doesn't warm anything, Wally. Putting a blanket on a rock does not warm the rock.

 

[Into the Night]

You don't even know what pchem is.

Mantra 1a. Lame.

LOL.

I mean, seriously dude, I knew you were full of shit the minute you started blathering on about entropy but you NEVER ONCE used the standard symbol for it. It's one of the 26 letters of the alphabet and it's NOT the one you usually go for.

There is no standard symbol for it.

If you ARE a chemist, you know EXACTLY what I'm talking about right now.

I do. You are making shit up.

You have a bunch of "tells" which give away your game. (In case you THOUGHT you were fooling someone)

You are describing yourself.

No gas or vapor has the capability to warm the Earth.

You cannot create energy out of nothing.
You cannot trap heat.
You cannot trap light.
You cannot trap thermal energy. There is always heat.

 

[Into the Night]

That's more your speed, though. These kids might be able to teach you some chemistry.

Mantra 1a. Lame.

 

[IBDaMann]

You are. No gas or vapor has the capability to warm the Earth, void. The atmosphere is no exception.

Is ZenMode still denying the daytime side of the moon?

 

[Into the Night]

Greenhouses have been used for 2,000 years, because they work.

So?

Stoves, ovens, space heaters, etc. turn energy into heat.

Heat is not energy.

Heat is thermo energy, and uses energy units.

Heat is not energy. The unit of energy is the Joule, and heat is not measure in joules.

Are you thinking of temperature?

You seem to be wandering, desperately trying to justify your religion.

Temperature is heat over mass,

Nope. You are denying the 0th law of thermodynamics again. Temperature is average thermal energy.

and would use a slightly different unit. That being said, you can create temperature with energy also.

Temperature is not energy.

In the real world, insulation exists.

Never said it didn't. Buzzword fallacy ('real world').

Humans have known about it for maybe a hundred thousand years.

Argument from randU fallacy. Making up numbers won't work, Wally.

 

[Into the Night]

Is ZenMode still denying the daytime side of the moon?

Yes.

 

[Into the Night]

Into the Night does not deny insulation exists. @Walt is desperate to assign bogus positions to Into the Night so that @Walt will at least have something to attack, albeit not honestly.

Yes. This is Mantra 30a.

@Walt is the one who is broadcasting scientific illiteracy, including a strange belief that thermal conduction somehow occurs in the vacuum of space.

Sort of.

Wally is trying to describe conductive heat, when it's not possible to conduct heat between objects separated by a vacuum. It's an extension of his 'greenhouse' and 'hot car' routine. Apparently Wally only thinks of any heat as conductive heat, completely ignoring convective heat and radiant heat. This is odd, since it is radiant heat the warms the hot car.

What is actually happening is a special pleading fallacy.

Another mistake he makes is that he assumes visible light, when absorbed, converts to thermal energy (it doesn't). He also assume that light is only visible light (until he conveniently needs infrared light to heat CO2, another special pleading fallacy).

@T. A. Gardner joins @Walt in intense science denial, believing that the laws of thermodynamics permit the creation of energy out of nothing, and the decrease of entropy in closed systems, among other things.

Both @T. A. Gardner and @Walt are currently blaming Into the Night for their own confusion and lack of education, specifically because Into the Night offered to help them.

That about sums it up. As is typical of such threads, when they run out of looping through their arguments (as you so eloquently demonstrated awhile ago!), they turn to insults, thinking that will somehow allow them to 'win the argument'. All it really shows, of course, is that they have no argument left. They've lost the argument.

 

[Into the Night]

Actually, both you and him deny it:

Somehow IBDa and Night believe they have outsmarted all the experts, and even the vast majority of normal people.

Void reference fallacy. Omniscience fallacy. You don't get to speak for everyone. 'Expert' worship.

Science is not 'experts', Wally.

 

[Into the Night]

Greenhouses use the greenhouse effect to keep hot. Your car gets hot because of the greenhouse effect. This is a known effect for at least 2,000 years.

Greenhouses do not keep hot.
Cars do not keep hot.

Watts is not a measurement of heat. It is a measurement of power.

It is both.

Energy, such as heat energy, is measured in joules.

Heat is not energy and is not measured in joules.

Power is measured in watts, which is joules per second.

Joules per second is not joules, Wally.

So watts over a period of time creates joules of heat energy.

Heat is not energy. It is not measured in joules.

 

[Into the Night]

All these scientists around the world have studied this their entire professional life, and somehow you figured out they were all wrong in a few minutes?

Void reference fallacy. Omniscience fallacy. 'Expert' worship. You don't get to speak for everyone, Wally.
Science is not scientists. It isn't even people. Science has no politics or religion.

 

[ZenMode]

You are. No gas or vapor has the capability to warm the Earth, void. The atmosphere is no exception.

You are a science denier. It's already known that the Earth's atmosphere impacts temperatures on Earth. You can't create reality by typing ridiculous claims on this forum.