Challenging Hume to a Debate #2 - Physics of the Global Warming Faith : Is Greenhouse Effect Even Possible?

[IBDaMann]

Take a look at Venus.

OK. You should try looking at attractive women. Much better.

 

[IBDaMann]

It seems like the term "greenhouse gasses" is an issue,

The correct spelling is "gases". The word "gasses" (with a double-s) is a verb and is what Hitler did to Jews.

... but we know that ...

There is only one of you. You are not a plural. What you are about to assert is not correct and you therefore don't "know" it.

with no atmosphere ... regulating the highs and lows, earth would be uninhabitable.

I imagine that the life at the bottom of the ocean at thermal vents would still survive.

 

[IBDaMann]

Yes.... that's how the term "greenhouse effect" originated....actual greenhouses that restricted airflow, causing the internal temperatures to exceed the external temperature.

Nope. It was purely as a metaphor. The claim was that greenhouse gas was restricting the earth's radiance and thus was increasing earth's average global equilibrium temperature. This is a direct violation of Stefan-Boltzmann.

 

[ZenMode]

Did you just ask, in very poor fashion, if the earth's average global equilibrium temperature would change if the atmosphere were removed?

The average global equilibrium temperature would remain the same. Of course, a new atmosphere of water vapor would replace the oxygen-nitrogen atmopshere.

Nope. I asked if the high and low temperature would change.

 

[ZenMode]

The correct spelling is "gases". The word "gasses" (with a double-s) is a verb and is what Hitler did to Jews.


There is only one of you. You are not a plural. What you are about to assert is not correct and you therefore don't "know" it.


I imagine that the life at the bottom of the ocean at thermal vents would still survive.

Good. We agree that the atmosphere impacts temperatures on Earth, something we both knew but you, for some reason, wanted to avoid acknowledging.

So, maybe you want to explain how that fact relates to Stefan Boltzmann law and how it's possible that the composition of the atmosphere makes that possible.

 

[IBDaMann]

Nope. I asked if the high and low temperature would change.

Wrong thread. This thread is about the average global equilibrium temperature changing.

 

[IBDaMann]

Good. We agree that the atmosphere impacts temperatures on Earth,

We're not discussing atmospheric impacts to temperatures. This thread asks if CO2 and other invisible atmospheric gases can simply increase the earth's average global equilibrium temperature simply by existing, i.e. that the earth's average global equilibrium temperature increases because of the addition of these gases to the atmosphere, not because of any additional thermal radiation (increased Wattage) output from the sun.

Feel free to cross-reference with the OP.

 

[ZenMode]

We're not discussing atmospheric impacts to temperatures. This thread asks if CO2 and other invisible atmospheric gases can simply increase the earth's average global equilibrium temperature simply by existing, i.e. that the earth's average global equilibrium temperature increases because of the addition of these gases to the atmosphere, not because of any additional thermal radiation (increased Wattage) output from the sun.

Feel free to cross-reference with the OP.

CO2 exists in the atmosphere. So, when discussing whether or not CO2, or other gases, can increase temperature, it helps to start with an acknowledgement that CO2 and other atmospheric gases currently do impact temperatures. You seem unwilling to acknowledge that, even though we both know it's true.

So, do we agree that the Earth's atmosphere, which includes several gases including CO2, does impact temperature on Earth. If we didn't have an atmosphere, the highs would be much higher and the lows would be much lower, right?

 

[IBDaMann]

So, when discussing whether or not CO2, or other gases, can increase temperature,

So, do we agree that the Earth's atmosphere, which includes several gases including CO2, does impact temperature on Earth.

Reword. Where you ambiguously write only "temperature", you need to specify "average global equilibrium temperature. "

Until then, you stand in error.

 

[gfm7175]

Actually quite the opposite. S-B tells us what the blackbody temperature of the earth should be. But since we have greenhouse gases our surface temperatures are something like 30deg C HIGHER than the blackbody temperature of the earth.

S-B is how we know that greenhouse gases function as advertised.

TOO FUNNY!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[gfm7175]

They [the amount of energy coming into the Earth, and the amount of energy going back out] are very very close to equal.

Great. So, if these values are effectively equal, then where is the ADDITIONAL thermal energy coming from that is required to increase Earth's average global equilibrium temperature?

This is now the point of the conversation where you pretend to be "educated beyond my ability to understand" while attempting to babble-splain away how redistribution of EXISTING thermal energy somehow miraculously adds ADDITIONAL thermal energy.

Have at it!

 

[Kafka]

This is nothing but bad math performed on fabricated numbers.

So you don't know how to use Stefan-Boltzmann? Sorry to hear that.

 

[IBDaMann]

Actually quite the opposite. S-B tells us what the blackbody temperature of the earth should be.

ummm, no.

But since we have greenhouse gases our surface temperatures are something like 30deg C HIGHER than the blackbody temperature of the earth.

Stefan-Boltzmann has no atmospheric composition component. You need to stop being totally gullible and believing everything your slave-masters order you to believe.

Learning some science can help.

 

[Kafka]

ummm, no.


Stefan-Boltzmann has no atmospheric composition component. You need to stop being totally gullible and believing everything your slave-masters order you to believe.

Learning some science can help.

Except everything I've said is stuff you can find on any given earth systems science website like those from Columbia University etc.

But I'm sure that the earth's scientists simply don't know as much as you do. Yet, ironically, you don't seem to know anything about this topic.

 

[IBDaMann]

Except everything I've said is stuff you can find on any given earth systems science website like those from Columbia University etc.

The kind of Marxist disinformation that sucked you in can certainly be found all throughout the internet.

But I'm sure that the earth's scientists simply don't know as much as you do.

You certainly don't, and you don't speak for anyone else.

 

[Kafka]

The kind of Marxist disinformation that sucked you in can certainly be found all throughout the internet.

My point being that ACTUAL EXPERTS say the stuff I posted.

Unlike the bizarro counter-factual stuff you spout. In fact only YOU, Into the Night and GFM seem to hold the unique beliefs you have. And strangely enough NONE OF YOU KNOW ANY SCIENCE. It's amazing how that works.

You certainly don't, and you don't speak for anyone else.

LOL. Son, I've FORGOTTEN more earth science than you ever knew. LOLOLOL.

 

[ZenMode]

Reword. Where you ambiguously write only "temperature", you need to specify "average global equilibrium temperature. "

Until then, you stand in error.

I deleted my last response because getting your to acknowledge incredibly simple truths is dragging this out far too long.

So, let's just skip to a

• The Earth's atmosphere absolutely impacts temperatures on Earth. Without an atmosphere, we'd all be dead because the temperature swings would be so extreme.
• The energy from the Sun is different form than the energy leaving the Earth
• The Earth's atmosphere limits the amount of the Sun's energy that gets to the Earth's surface, which also limits the high temperatures.
• The atmosphere also slows how quickly energy leaves the earth's surface, back into space, which is why the low temperatures aren't as low as they'd be otherwise.

What, that I bulleted above, do you disagree with.

 

[IBDaMann]

My point being that ACTUAL EXPERTS say the stuff I posted.

Nope. My point being that the people you naively call "experts" are hucksters who are trying to bend you over furniture. You allow them to ream you with disinformation because you don't know any better.

 

[Kafka]

Nope. My point being that the people you naively call "experts" are hucksters who are trying to bend you over furniture. You allow them to ream you with disinformation because you don't know any better.

Ya know, after a while this sort of schtick really grates. I mean it's not even clever or insightful, it's just literally screaming "Nuh huh!" after someone says something.

Does this sort of shitposting (which you surely MUST know is a joke) really get you off? Ewww.

 

[IBDaMann]

• The Earth's atmosphere absolutely impacts temperatures on Earth.

It is not possible to get you to be honest. You insist on obscuring your argument in ambiguity. As such, your argument is discarded.

If you won't specify "average global equilibrium temperature" then there is no point in discussing the matter further with you.

• [irrelevant point omitted]
• [irrelevant point omitted]
• [erroneous point omitted]
• [erroneous point omitted]

You're obfuscating your errors.