Challenging Hume to a Debate #2 - Physics of the Global Warming Faith : Is Greenhouse Effect Even Possible?

[IBDaMann]

"That which is not true" is anything that runs contrary to what you want to believe.

You need to finish that thought. What I believe is science, math, logic and economics models, along with my own observations.

Yes, anything that runs contrary to any of this is discarded as "not true" (false).

You are continuing to prove my point by dismissing things that run contrary to what you want to believe as "religious beliefs".

You consider science, math, logic and economics models to be mere "religious beliefs", and you consider your WACKY religious beliefs to be absolute truth (as any religious believer does).

You remain scientifically illiterate and mathematically incompetent, and post only those things that are not true and that are summarily discarded by rational adults who do not worship as you do.

Sure. I'll reach out to NASA right now and let them know that message board poster IBDaMann disagrees with their assessment of the average temperature on Venus and Mercury and wants to cross examine them.

After you reach out to NASA, be sure to reach out to HUD, and then reach out to the Department of Commerce and the Department of Transportation. They get touchy when they are snubbed.

 

[ZenMode]

You need to finish that thought. What I believe is science, math, logic and economics models, along with my own observations.

Yes, anything that runs contrary to any of this is discarded as "not true" (false).


You consider science, math, logic and economics models to be mere "religious beliefs", and you consider your WACKY religious beliefs to be absolute truth (as any religious believer does).

You remain scientifically illiterate and mathematically incompetent, and post only those things that are not true and that are summarily discarded by rational adults who do not worship as you do.


After you reach out to NASA, be sure to reach out to HUD, and then reach out to the Department of Commerce and the Department of Transportation. They get touchy when they are snubbed.

"After you reach out to NASA, be sure to reach out to HUD, and then reach out to the Department of Commerce and the Department of Transportation. They get touchy when they are snubbed"

You continue to prove my point. In your world, you know more about planet temperature than NASA scientists. Is it because you ACTUALLY know more than they do? No. It's because you have to write them off to continue believing what you WANT to believe.

 

[IBDaMann]

You continue to prove my point. In your world, you know more about planet temperature than NASA scientists.

You continue to prove my point. You have no business involving yourself in discussions on this topic. You don't even know what NASA is.

NASA is a government bureacracy that manages contracts. You strangely think it is a science lab. You're a moron. There are no "NASA scientists."

Is it because you ACTUALLY know more than they do?

I know infinitely more than people who do not exist.

Let's recap. You are a moron.

 

[gfm7175]

Let's recap. You are a moron.

Well put!

 

[ZenMode]

You continue to prove my point. You have no business involving yourself in discussions on this topic. You don't even know what NASA is.

NASA is a government bureacracy that manages contracts. You strangely think it is a science lab. You're a moron. There are no "NASA scientists."


I know infinitely more than people who do not exist.

Let's recap. You are a moron.

Of course NASA is just a bureaucracy. If they were actual scientists and engineers, sending people into space, working on cutting edge technology and studying the earth and climate, you might have to reconsider your position. We both know that's not going to happen.

 

[IBDaMann]

Of course NASA is just a bureaucracy.

You think it's some sort of science governing body. Why?

If they were actual scientists and engineers,

... but they're not. NASA contracts out to private sector firms for science and engineering. NASA bureacrats can't hope to accomplish on their own what scientists, engineers and mathematicians can accomplish.

How do you not know this?

 

[ZenMode]

You think it's some sort of science governing body. Why?


... but they're not. NASA contracts out to private sector firms for science and engineering. NASA bureacrats can't hope to accomplish on their own what scientists, engineers and mathematicians can accomplish.

How do you not know this?

There are both private and government employees at NASA. Either way, if you don't dismiss them then, again, you might have to question what you WANT to believe.....and we can't have that because obviously you know more than the scientists working at/for NASA.

 

[IBDaMann]

There are both private and government employees at NASA.

You are being dishonest. The answer is NOPE. NASA is a government agency. All NASA employees are government employees. Next!

The question before you is why do you believe that NASA is anything more than just a government bureacracy, like HUD or the Department of Transportation?

The next time you mention NASA, I'm going to ask you about HUD and DoT as well. Answer the question.

 

[ZenMode]

You are being dishonest. The answer is NOPE. NASA is a government agency. All NASA employees are government employees. Next!

The question before you is why do you believe that NASA is anything more than just a government bureacracy, like HUD or the Department of Transportation?

The next time you mention NASA, I'm going to ask you about HUD and DoT as well. Answer the question.

I can assure you that NASA is not out mining minerals or manufacturing their own materials to build spacecraft, satellites, etc. So, yes, there are private contractors who do work for NASA. That's true of every single government agency. They all have to partner with private entities for something.

But that isn't the point... The point is that you are going to dismiss and write off any entity that tells you things you don't want to hear. You are basically claiming that you know more about the Earth, the atmosphere and climate then the NASA scientists who are employed to study that. You make that claim that way you don't have to ever doubt your position.

 

[IBDaMann]

So, yes, there are private contractors who do work for NASA. That's true of every single government agency. They all have to partner with private entities for something.

There is no partnering. NASA relies on private firms for everything related to putting vehicles into orbit. NASA merely manages the contracts to get that done.

But that isn't the point...

It's the entire point. Let's focus on it. You operate under the mistaken impression that NASA is somehow the Vatican of science, when there is no science there. What do HUD scientists say about Stefan-Boltzmann? Why aren't you citing the scientists of the Department of Transportation in your claims that energy is created out of nothing?

The point is that you are going to dismiss and write off any entity that tells you ...

Of course. I have told you repeatedly that you need to provide science if you wish to discuss science. You don't get to pretend to speak for other people and organizations, and you don't get to point to your church clergy.

You have to produce science.

 

[proud PETA member]

This indicates you don't really understand how greenhouse gases work.

I'm a little late to this party but just now got caught up on reading this thread.

@Obtenebrator-
Isn't energy required to perform work? Please explain. Thanks in advance.

 

[proud PETA member]

... our atmosphere functions similarly to a greenhouse, in that it slows the equalizing of temperature of the earth's atmosphere with the cooler air outside the earth's atmosphere,

I'm trying to grasp your line of reasoning here.

Question...

How does the earth's atmosphere get outside the earth's atmosphere?

Thanks in advance.

 

[proud PETA member]

b) our atmosphere functions similarly to a greenhouse,

We should probably stop and explore this for a minute.

I don't get how you could possibly make this statement with a straight face.

A greenhouse can be warmer inside because it eliminates convection. How does the atmosphere suppress convection similar to a greenhouse?

 

[ZenMode]

There is no partnering. NASA relies on private firms for everything related to putting vehicles into orbit. NASA merely manages the contracts to get that done.


It's the entire point. Let's focus on it. You operate under the mistaken impression that NASA is somehow the Vatican of science, when there is no science there. What do HUD scientists say about Stefan-Boltzmann? Why aren't you citing the scientists of the Department of Transportation in your claims that energy is created out of nothing?

There are NASA scientists. They are on the NASA site. There are NASA climate scientists .You shoud look it up, so you at least know who you are dismissing to keep your confirmation bias alive and well.

Of course. I have told you repeatedly that you need to provide science if you wish to discuss science. You don't get to pretend to speak for other people and organizations, and you don't get to point to your church clergy.

As I've said, there's nothing I or anyone can provide because you'll explain it all away to keep believing what you want to believe.
You have to produce science.
[/QUOTE]

 

[IBDaMann]

There are NASA scientists.

Give me an example job description. NASA oversees contracts.

There are NASA climate scientists

There are also NASA Christian Scientists. They are all religious people who reject science.

There is no science of Climate just as there is no science of Christianity.

 

[ZenMode]

Give me an example job description. NASA oversees contracts.

Again, no matter what I post, you're going to stick to your beliefs as a matter of confirmation bias maintenance. I'm sure there are people at NASA who oversee contracts for, as an example, fabrication of space shuttle parts because NASA scientists/engineers aren't making their own vehicle parts.

This link lists (filtered) some of the scientists. It lists the research facility where some work.

If you had ANY intellectual curiosity, you wouldn't blindly believe everything you hear/read.

People of NASA Science - NASA Science

science.nasa.gov

There are also NASA Christian Scientists. They are all religious people who reject science.

There is no science of Climate just as there is no science of Christianity.

First, your opinion doesn't create reality. There are climate scientists. In fact, if you looked at the link above, there are scientists who specialize in studying glaciers.

Second, you continue to prove my point in regard to dismissing anything that is inconvenient to your argument.

On a side note, if you want to apply for any of the non-existent NASA jobs, here's the link:

USAJOBS - Search

 

[ZenMode]

We should probably stop and explore this for a minute.

I don't get how you could possibly make this statement with a straight face.

A greenhouse can be warmer inside because it eliminates convection. How does the atmosphere suppress convection similar to a greenhouse?

There's a reason I said "similarly".

 

[ZenMode]

I'm trying to grasp your line of reasoning here.

Question...

How does the earth's atmosphere get outside the earth's atmosphere?

Thanks in advance.

It doesn't. The correct description would be that the Earth's atmosphere "slows" the movement of thermal, infrared energy leaving the Earth's surface.

 

[Kafka]

I'm a little late to this party but just now got caught up on reading this thread.

@Obtenebrator-
Isn't energy required to perform work? Please explain. Thanks in advance.

I should think it is, why do you ask?

 

[proud PETA member]

I should think it is, why do you ask?

You claim IBdaMann doesn't understand how greenhouse gasses "work". If greenhouse gasses perform work to raise the average equilibrium temperature, where is the additional energy coming from? Carbon dioxide, methane, or any other atmospheric gas is not energy. Temperature and energy must move in the same direction, right? So when considering the earth system, ALL of it, it would seem impossible for a non energy gas to raise the average equilibrium temperature.

I've read the car windows argument and it's bogus. Same with the greenhouse. Bogus. Both of these suppress/eliminate convection and there is nothing in the atmosphere that reduces the flow of thermal energy (heat) similar to a greenhouse. Without additional or a reduction in incoming energy, the average equilibrium temperature remains unchanged in a system.