APP - Christians on Healthcare Reform

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midcan5

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An Open Letter On Health Care to Conservative Christians in the U.S.

by Brian McLaren

Dear Friends,

"...Now, in the debate about health care, I am similarly disheartened to see the relative silence of thoughtful Christian voices as counterpoint to the predictable rhetoric of the more reactive voices. Over the last few weeks, I’ve been getting mass e-mails and Web links from evangelical and charismatic organizations that present frightening and outlandish claims about what President Obama is planning to do regarding health care. I’ve checked into these claims, and in case after case, they are simply false. They’re based on rumors spread by certain dramatic radio and cable-tv personalities, but they are not based in truth."

http://blog.sojo.net/2009/08/11/an-open-letter-to-conservative-christians-in-the-us-on-health-care/

http://go.sojo.net/campaign/health_care

Have a say in the discussion.
 
Christians not wanting to help their fellow man. Figures..
Those are not TRUE Christians, just self proclaimed christians.
 
once again midcan shows how ignorant he is....

there is nothing about christianity that says we must give the GOVERNMENT the power....christians all over the world give free healthcare....doctors without borders goes all over to help people....i could go on, but i have no doubt it will fall on deaf ears because those who have made up their minds about christians are blind and deaf as to any idea that does not comport with their preconcieved views
 
uscitizen said:
Christians not wanting to help their fellow man. Figures..
Those are not TRUE Christians, just self proclaimed christians.
Click to expand...

I find it odd that the liberals present a plan that leaves the poor saddled with a $10k family deductible and a 30% copay when they know the poor can't afford it....meanwhile, the liberals make sure they get the same coverage the poor can't afford, even if the liberals have the money to pay for it......strange way to "help their fellow man", isn't it........must be self-proclaimed progressives.....
 
Why do conservatives find it necessary to make any excuse for not helping their fellow man? Whether it be clean air, minimum wage, social security, or welfare, they always manage to see the hole. Consider we all live for this brief moment and then are gone forever, why waste the moment, do something, and preferably do something good for all.

from the letter:

"But for almost that many years, I have been growing more and more deeply troubled by the way so many from my heritage in conservative Christianity – in its evangelical, charismatic, and Roman Catholic streams – have allowed themselves to be spiritually formed by various conservative political and economic ideologies. It’s been disturbing to see how many Christians have begun to follow and trust leaders who live more by political/media/ideological codes than by moral/spiritual/biblical ones.

As a result, I sometimes think that Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Bill O’Reilly, Glenn Beck, and Fox News may now influence many conservative evangelicals, charismatics, and Catholics more than Billy Graham, Rick Warren, T.D. Jakes, Pope Benedict, or even the four gospels.

Now in a free country, people certainly have the right to choose their ideology. But Christians of all sorts, I think we all can agree, have a special calling – to increasingly harmonize our lives (including our lives as citizens) with the teaching and example of Jesus. My concern is that many of my sisters and brothers, without realizing it, have begun seeing Jesus and the faith through the lens of a neo-conservative political framework, thus reducing their vision of Jesus and his essential message of the kingdom of God. As a result, too many of us are becoming more and more zealous conservatives, but less and less Christ-like Christians, and many don’t seem to notice the difference.

Thankfully, many Christian leaders are far more thoughtful and nuanced in their integration of faith and public life. They don’t jump on talk-radio’s latest conspiracy theory bandwagons, nor do they buy flippant talk of “death panels” or inappropriate comparisons to Hitler and so on. But still, so many of them remain silent about what’s going on, and thereby grant it tacit approval."
 
PostmodernProphet said:
I find it odd that the liberals present a plan that leaves the poor saddled with a $10k family deductible and a 30% copay when they know the poor can't afford it....meanwhile, the liberals make sure they get the same coverage the poor can't afford, even if the liberals have the money to pay for it......strange way to "help their fellow man", isn't it........must be self-proclaimed progressives.....
Click to expand...

You could pretty much substitue conservatives for liberal in that.

Ohh wait the cons have submitted no plan.
They like it like it is.
 
Yurt said:
once again midcan shows how ignorant he is....

there is nothing about christianity that says we must give the GOVERNMENT the power....christians all over the world give free healthcare....doctors without borders goes all over to help people....i could go on, but i have no doubt it will fall on deaf ears because those who have made up their minds about christians are blind and deaf as to any idea that does not comport with their preconcieved views
Click to expand...

You are correct here. We are not required to give the government that sort of power. We are told the government has some responsibilities and not one of those responsibilities is to provide health care. We have a responsibility to the government......to be subject to it as long as it doesn't contradict God's law. And Christians do help a lot of people in the ways you describe. My congregation of only 50 - 60 people does a lot of good providing help (not just medical but food and clothing as well) for a lot of people, thousands of people per year.

That said, if the government could come up with something that would work and wouldn't break the bank to help poor families get coverage I'd be all for it. So far, IMO, they have shown that they cannot do it.

You know the quickest way to drain a congregation's bank account is for one of the needy members to have a severe medical problem here in America and rely on the congregation to help them out. IMO, that's a problem. So I admit that there is a problem but so far I can see no viable solution from either side.
 
Leaning. How about this.
Expand medicaid to cover anyone up to 50K income. With a graduated premium deducted from their pay, etc if they join. Lets say you pay $80 a month if you make 35K just fo instance and $250 if you mke 50K.

Roll CHIPS in there as well. This would just be an expansion of an existing program.

I expect what we wind up with out of the current "reform" debacle is not going to benefit much of anyone except the medical and drug industry.
 
whambulance for the attack the drug industry folks.
They suck till you really need that pill.
dumbasses
 
Well, don't you know that the only way to act "holy" is through government? We should make all our laws based on religion there, Midcan... :rolleyes:

Inane.
 
uscitizen said:
Leaning. How about this.
Expand medicaid to cover anyone up to 50K income. With a graduated premium deducted from their pay, etc if they join. Lets say you pay $80 a month if you make 35K just fo instance and $250 if you mke 50K.

Roll CHIPS in there as well. This would just be an expansion of an existing program.

I expect what we wind up with out of the current "reform" debacle is not going to benefit much of anyone except the medical and drug industry.
Click to expand...

how about open up both Medicaid and the federal employee program to enroll anyone that wants to enroll....then concentrate on helping financially those who really need help....why are you giving money to people who make $50k a year?.....I know lots of folks who are doing fine on $40k a year income.....
 
midcan5 said:
>
An Open Letter On Health Care to Conservative Christians in the U.S.

by Brian McLaren

Dear Friends,

"...Now, in the debate about health care, I am similarly disheartened to see the relative silence of thoughtful Christian voices as counterpoint to the predictable rhetoric of the more reactive voices. Over the last few weeks, I’ve been getting mass e-mails and Web links from evangelical and charismatic organizations that present frightening and outlandish claims about what President Obama is planning to do regarding health care. I’ve checked into these claims, and in case after case, they are simply false. They’re based on rumors spread by certain dramatic radio and cable-tv personalities, but they are not based in truth."

http://blog.sojo.net/2009/08/11/an-open-letter-to-conservative-christians-in-the-us-on-health-care/

http://go.sojo.net/campaign/health_care

Have a say in the discussion.
Click to expand...

When a liberal is failing at debate this is one of the last gasp tactics used.
 
midcan5 said:
Why do conservatives find it necessary to make any excuse for not helping their fellow man? Whether it be clean air, minimum wage, social security, or welfare, they always manage to see the hole. Consider we all live for this brief moment and then are gone forever, why waste the moment, do something, and preferably do something good for all.

from the letter:

"But for almost that many years, I have been growing more and more deeply troubled by the way so many from my heritage in conservative Christianity – in its evangelical, charismatic, and Roman Catholic streams – have allowed themselves to be spiritually formed by various conservative political and economic ideologies. It’s been disturbing to see how many Christians have begun to follow and trust leaders who live more by political/media/ideological codes than by moral/spiritual/biblical ones.

As a result, I sometimes think that Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Bill O’Reilly, Glenn Beck, and Fox News may now influence many conservative evangelicals, charismatics, and Catholics more than Billy Graham, Rick Warren, T.D. Jakes, Pope Benedict, or even the four gospels.

Now in a free country, people certainly have the right to choose their ideology. But Christians of all sorts, I think we all can agree, have a special calling – to increasingly harmonize our lives (including our lives as citizens) with the teaching and example of Jesus. My concern is that many of my sisters and brothers, without realizing it, have begun seeing Jesus and the faith through the lens of a neo-conservative political framework, thus reducing their vision of Jesus and his essential message of the kingdom of God. As a result, too many of us are becoming more and more zealous conservatives, but less and less Christ-like Christians, and many don’t seem to notice the difference.

Thankfully, many Christian leaders are far more thoughtful and nuanced in their integration of faith and public life. They don’t jump on talk-radio’s latest conspiracy theory bandwagons, nor do they buy flippant talk of “death panels” or inappropriate comparisons to Hitler and so on. But still, so many of them remain silent about what’s going on, and thereby grant it tacit approval."
Click to expand...

I live in America, under American law and principles. This republic was founded upon Natural Rights, English Constitutionalism, and Real Whig Ideology. Not upon theocracy and statism. This is why I haven't forced the Papacy upon you Godless Liberals and Heretical Neocons, et. al. yet.

Its really not difficult to understand. You liberals don't want to see a theocracy anymore than the rest of us, nor Judgement Day, I expect. Perhaps if you would go out, produce wealth, and spend it around and donate it like the rest of us do, we'd all be better off.

Meanwhile, I am not going to require tithing, receiving of the sacraments, observance of Lent and Easter, or any of the other cool things that would probably bore most of you to tears...
 
Threedee said:
I live in America, under American law and principles. This republic was founded upon Natural Rights, English Constitutionalism, and Real Whig Ideology. Not upon theocracy and statism. This is why I haven't forced the Papacy upon you Godless Liberals and Heretical Neocons, et. al. yet.

Its really not difficult to understand. You liberals don't want to see a theocracy anymore than the rest of us, nor Judgement Day, I expect. Perhaps if you would go out, produce wealth, and spend it around and donate it like the rest of us do, we'd all be better off.

Meanwhile, I am not going to require tithing, receiving of the sacraments, observance of Lent and Easter, or any of the other cool things that would probably bore most of you to tears...
Click to expand...

well said
 
Threedee said:
I live in America, under American law and principles. This republic was founded upon Natural Rights, English Constitutionalism, and Real Whig Ideology. Not upon theocracy and statism. This is why I haven't forced the Papacy upon you Godless Liberals and Heretical Neocons, et. al. yet.

Its really not difficult to understand. You liberals don't want to see a theocracy anymore than the rest of us, nor Judgement Day, I expect. Perhaps if you would go out, produce wealth, and spend it around and donate it like the rest of us do, we'd all be better off.

Meanwhile, I am not going to require tithing, receiving of the sacraments, observance of Lent and Easter, or any of the other cool things that would probably bore most of you to tears...
Click to expand...

... says the guy with a government job. How much wealth are you creating in the reserves?
 
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