Civil Libertarians?

[WinterBorn]

Supporting being a pothead or being one. There is no difference.

One uses pot and the other supports individual freedoms.

 

[CFM]

Another realist. I don't smoke pot.

But the realities of legalization are clear.

If you support people being potheads, there is no difference.

Nothing realistic about it.

 

[CFM]

One uses pot and the other supports individual freedoms.

Like I said, no difference. Glad you agree old bastard.

 

[TrippyHippy]

I'm not stopping you from doing anything. No one is like you claim they are. The laws aren't stopping you from doing anything. If that were true, there would be no murders, rapes, robberies, etc. If you don't do something, it's YOUR choice not to do it. Maybe you want to blame others because you simply don't have the guts to do what you want to do and accept the consequences of doing so.

I mind my own business until it becomes mine. If you smoke pot only in your home, no one will ever know. If they know, it's because it's not a private as you believe it to be. If you make it my business and I say something about it, what the fuck are you going to do about it?

You don't mind your own business. Far from it. Your support for prohibition is clear proof otherwise. A cop could still bust down my house and raid it because I have weed in it. Just because someone thought they smelled it. I can get arrested for simply transporting it from where I got it straight to my home. Hell, there's people serving life sentences just for growing it. It's ridiculous.

What's even more ridiculous is that you see yourself as a 'limited government' and 'fiscal conservative' Republican, yet you support all these bullshit intrusive laws. And support paying for the enforcement of them with other peoples' money. You're no better than any other liberal that likes wasting taxpayer money and government resources to force his views onto others. You just differ in what views you want forced onto others.

 

[WinterBorn]

If you support people being potheads, there is no difference.

Nothing realistic about it.

I support people being able to choose for themselves. I support states being able to decide for themselves.

I don't smoke for several reasons. One of the most important is my work.

 

[Ross Dolan]

I am an “OTHER” but I chose not to vote since you began the "ONLY" selection with “on the fence.” I most decidedly am NOT “on the fence.”

I want to live in society…I want to live a civilized existence…and I cannot conceive of a way to do that without sacrificing some of my personal freedom. If I am free to do ANYTHING I want…and others are free to do ANYTHING they want…all we have is chaos and anarchy.

If I can do ANYTHING I want, I can kill you if I choose…I can speed 75 miles an hour in my car through a schoolyard, I can take a dump in the aisle of a movie house.

"Where to draw the line" seems to be the issue most at hand…and people who call themselves Libertarians or libertarians seem to want that line drawn at a spot I consider ludicrous and unsustainable.

I happen to go the other way in that continuum…and I realize that bothers most people. I do not have significant concerns about personal privacy. If you want to know what Internet sites I visit…so be it. If you want to know how often I shower; whether I occasionally take a leak against a tree on the golf course, fart where it is inappropriate, or crap of that nature…go for it. I don’t publicize any of those things…but if you want to investigate it, be my guest.

I am not in any way bothered by CCTV…and advocate for more. I am also an advocate for more transparency in net wealth and the like. I think those things might be more beneficial to society than the opaqueness now in place.

I think the Internet should not be as anonymous as it is. I think we will be a better humanity if we all have to make our thoughts known as the individuals we are.

 

[CFM]

You don't mind your own business. Far from it. Your support for prohibition is clear proof otherwise. A cop could still bust down my house and raid it because I have weed in it. Just because someone thought they smelled it. I can get arrested for simply transporting it from where I got it straight to my home. Hell, there's people serving life sentences just for growing it. It's ridiculous.

What's even more ridiculous is that you see yourself as a 'limited government' and 'fiscal conservative' Republican and yet support all these bullshit laws. And support paying for it with other peoples' money.

What am I prohibiting you from doing? If you don't do something, it's because you're not man enough to stand up for what you believe you should be able to do and fight what you say is wrong.

If you're transporting it outside your home that means it's not in the privacy of your own home.

No one is serving a life sentence when the only thing they did was grow pot. That's an absolute lie.

 

[CFM]

I support people being able to choose for themselves. I support states being able to decide for themselves.

I don't smoke for several reasons. One of the most important is my work.

So you allow your work to prevent you from doing what you say is a right no one should be able to tell people not to exercise? I thought you self proclaimed civil libertarians had such strong convictions. Why don't you do it then fight it instead of using work as an excuse for controlling you.

 

[TrippyHippy]

What am I prohibiting you from doing? If you don't do something, it's because you're not man enough to stand up for what you believe you should be able to do and fight what you say is wrong.

Oh I do it. Bet your ass I do. I smoked just an hour ago. I just don't think I should be at risk of losing my life and being thrown in a cage for it.

If you're transporting it outside your home that means it's not in the privacy of your own home.

How do you get it, smart one?

No one is serving a life sentence when the only thing they did was grow pot. That's an absolute lie.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/14/opinion/outrageous-sentences-for-marijuana.html
http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/life-prison-selling-marijuana-people-new-pot-laws-forgot
https://www.vox.com/2016/4/20/11467558/marijuana-life-sentence
http://fox2now.com/2015/04/23/life-sentence-for-pot-missouri-man-serving-lengthy-term-for-marijuana/

 

[evince]

From Wikipedia:



How many of you identify as civil libertarians? I'm curious and want to get a feel for who all identifies with this political mindset, since it tends to be bipartisan.



Edit: By civil authoritarian I mean support for a security state, safety at the expense of some rights. Someone who believes in continuing the drug war, internet censorship, the TSA, domestic survelliance, harsher criminal penalties, and such would fall under this category.

IT IS NOT BI PARTISAN


it right wing crap

the libertarians are fools

 

[evince]

I understand we need some government to provide national security and uphold the rule of law. I don't buy into social engineering and government control of people's lives. Things like carbon taxes, meat rations, gun control, sin taxes... That garbage has no place in the US.

then why do you stay here

the founders NEVER intended what you just said there fool


they wrote the post office right into the constitution and made no buts about it being paid for by the people through the government.


you have bought into right wing stupid

 

[TrippyHippy]

IT IS NOT BI PARTISAN


it right wing crap

the libertarians are fools

It is bipartisan. The only issues Republicans and Democrats can really be found working together on is issues like restoring voting rights to felons, criminal justice reform, marijuana legalization, peeling back federal surveillance, digital/internet privacy etc.

There are civil libertarians in both parties. Civil libertarianism should not be confused with full-on libertarianism btw. If that's where you are confused.

 

[evince]

And "Social Justice" offered by excessive taxation and income redistribution I would assume.

life liberty and happiness ring a bell

your ideas about this are are sham perpetrated on you fools


and you refuse the facts that prove it

 

[evince]

"Other civil libertarian positions include support for at least partial legalization of illicit substances (marijuana, psilocybin, LSD and other soft drugs), privacy, assisted dying or euthanasia, the right to bear arms, topfree equality, criminal justice reform, a strong demarcation between religion and politics and more recently support for same-sex marriage."

In general I support these positions also. I'm not sure though what is meant by "criminal justice reform" so will hold off on that till more is known.

its reworking the justice system to make sure its not infected with bias


the right wing plan with black people was to make them felons by over policing the areas

and then taking their rights to vote

then using that same system to use them as a revenue source through fines.

The Ferguson mess was just that


an evil town where the white people non stop persecuted the people of color in the town

Investigated and confirmed

Ill go get a link

the libertarians PRETEND to support it but they never really do in action

 

[evince]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferguson_unrest#Supreme_Court_Justices


In response to the shooting and subsequent unrest, the U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ) conducted an investigation into the policing practices of the Ferguson Police Department (FPD).[18][19] In March 2015, the DOJ announced that they had determined that the FPD had engaged in misconduct against the citizenry of Ferguson by among other things discriminating against African Americans and applying racial stereotypes, in a "pattern or practice of unlawful conduct."[20][21][22] The DOJ also found that Ferguson depended on fines and other charges generated by police

 

[evince]

I'm more pissed off because of what our taxes are spent on. They are too high, and they don't have to be. Alot of money is spent on war, enforcing victimless crimes, bureaucracy, government surveillance, corporate bailouts/subsidies, and the like. Alot of money is just plain wasted too because of lacking efficiency, pork barrel spending, or government departments spending all of their budget, even if they find a surplus, so it doesn't decrease next quarter. Congressional pay and office budgets are also way too high. Rand Paul gave most of his office budget back to the treasury and still somehow found a way to function. And our congressman were originally intended to be common people, with jobs outside of politics. A stipend covering the very basic cost of living during the congressional session (which is only about 138 days a year) would be better.

Hell, even the morally righteous spending like our social spending is straight wasted in the red tape and bureaucracy of government. Our welfare system is woefully incompetent, inefficient, and easily taken advantage of. A universal basic income system would actually save money while taking care of the basic needs of all our citizens. This is something even strong fiscally conservative type economists like Milton Friedman have talked about.

Taxes can be decreased heavily without losing much of anything important. Our government just needs to pick up a 'Budgeting for Dummies' book and a swift kick to the ass. And learn to manage our money better.

rand paul is a bought and paid for clown

libertarianism is a sham


their economic ideas are based in the Austrian school of economics which is the short bus school of economics that doesn't use math because math proves them wrong

 

[evince]

Hear hear.

We've all bitched and moaned about government waste over the years. So how do we get that under control?

by not having huge idiot military parades to sooth our idiot president

 

[evince]

Yeah, that is pretty vague.

As I understand it, civil libertarians believe in rehabilitation and harm reduction over hard line criminal punishment. Abolishing mandatory minimums, improving prison conditions, higher wages for prison work, offering legitimate drug rehab programs, GED and college classes, etc. Also de-privatizing the prison system is a major cause, as we believe this creates a financial incentive to imprison people where there often wouldn't be.

yet they always vote with republicans when in office

 

[cawacko]

Our excessive taxes the right talks about were at 60 year lows when Trump got in office.We are not over taxed. But almost nobody wants to pay taxes. It is so easy to piss people off when you bring up taxes.

Was at a real estate conference a couple of months ago and an economist brought that in the past five years San Francisco's budget has gone from $6 to $10 billion over the past four years. Someone later asked who has seen an increase in services and an improvement in the City? No one raised their hand. People in California at least who are paying over 50% marginal tax rates aren't paying a low amount and aren't seeing the value in their tax dollars. Should they just sit there and be quiet about it?

 

[evince]

Violent crimes that actually endanger people are only some of the crimes people get put in prison for. And yes, generally speaking, supporting harsher penalties rather than rehabilitation and harm reduction would make you a civil authoritarian. You believe in strong authority and strict, rigid laws regarding civil matters. Harsh punishment for deterrence. Not accusing you of being for North Korean conditions. An extreme civil authoritarian would be, but these things tend to be on a spectrum.



No, that is ridiculous. Driving drunk is driving recklessly, endangering other drivers. Just like you can't drive 100mph, you shouldn't be able to drive drunk either. Although I do believe one should be found to be driving recklessly and legitimately under the influence. There is a rather large distinction between having a beer in your hand and actually driving drunk. Especially if you take into account the high tolerance of some people.

its driving impared that is illegal


a blood test is the only way to determine that


brethalizers are shit


NEVER SUBMITT TO ONE

insist on a blood test

yeah it means going to jail

but it also means you are much less likely to be found impaired


and libertarians in office vote just like republicans

because they are republicans in essance