Civil Libertarians?

Where Do You Stand On Civil Liberties?

  • Slightly Civil Libertarian

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Strong Civil Authoritarian

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Slightly Civil Authoritarian

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • On The Fence/IDK/Other

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    5
First of all, ca, in the remarks you quoted, I added a link to something I wrote back almost 30 years ago. Hope you get a chance to read it.

As for American conservatism...let me begin by mentioning that I am 81, white, and work at a golf course in one of the most conservative (and richest) counties in America. My fellow workers and fellow golfers are almost all white men of about my age...and are almost 100% ultra conservatives. My brother, my late brother, my mother, my father, and several of my cousins (all of whom I love) are conservatives. Lastly, I am not myself a liberal...although I champion a very progressive agenda.

A good deal of American conservatism in the past had an appeal for me. Giants of Republican American conservatism of my youth...people like William Buckley and Everett Dirksen were people I looked up to. I did have lots of trouble with the American conservatives of the Democratic Party...who were the racists of our nation.

American conservatives of the Republican ranks provided a mighty service to our country in the form of the loyal opposition. They ran herd on the attempted excesses of the liberals. They were outstanding at doing that. I appreciated them for that quality. However, I've never thought American conservatives had much value as true leaders...although (strangely enough) I thought Richard Nixon was an exception...and an efficient leader.

In 1964...the American conservatives of the South jumped ship from the Democrats and ran over to the Republicans. They were in a snit over the Civil Rights Act which LBJ signed. (Dirksen, a committed conservative helped LBJ pass it.)

In 1980, Ronald Reagan (for whom I voted), in concert with those southern defectors, started American conservative down the pathway to hell...and to the state where I consider it to be a cancer.

Reagan was a dynamic individual...and likeable beyond measure. But during his first inaugural address...I realized I had made an enormous mistake in voting for him...and the feelings I have that cause me to consider American conservatism to be a cancer on the American body politic were born.

Ronald Reagan started the trend (which is turning our nation into a sewer)…with the comment:

“…government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem.”

Those words began America’s decent into the political hell now polluting it. In my opinion, they were the most damaging words any American president had ever spoken...now eclipsed almost daily by Donald Trump.

Anyway...from that point on, the American conservative philosophy warped into varying forms of “I’ve got mine, screw you.”

That, whether you can see it or not; whether you can acknowledge it or not…is where it is right now.

There is no humanity to it.

I’ll stop here, but I’ll discuss it further if your response calls for it.
 
To each his own what they support. I'm not familiar with your positions but am always interested in hearing people's opinions. What is it about conservatism that you feel to be a cancer?

That post above is intended for you, ca.
 
Never said supporting legalization makes you a libertarian. We are not even talking about ideological libertarianism at all. Not even saying that supporting legalization makes you a civil libertarian, just that legalization is one cause of civil libertarians. It is the rest as a whole that make one a civil libertarian.

This is why I hate labels. It becomes a fight over what labels mean what, not the ideas themselves.

I agree. I do lots of debate with atheists, theists, and fellow agnostics.

That problem comes up in spades in those debates.
 
First of all, ca, in the remarks you quoted, I added a link to something I wrote back almost 30 years ago. Hope you get a chance to read it.

As for American conservatism...let me begin by mentioning that I am 81, white, and work at a golf course in one of the most conservative (and richest) counties in America. My fellow workers and fellow golfers are almost all white men of about my age...and are almost 100% ultra conservatives. My brother, my late brother, my mother, my father, and several of my cousins (all of whom I love) are conservatives. Lastly, I am not myself a liberal...although I champion a very progressive agenda.

A good deal of American conservatism in the past had an appeal for me. Giants of Republican American conservatism of my youth...people like William Buckley and Everett Dirksen were people I looked up to. I did have lots of trouble with the American conservatives of the Democratic Party...who were the racists of our nation.

American conservatives of the Republican ranks provided a mighty service to our country in the form of the loyal opposition. They ran herd on the attempted excesses of the liberals. They were outstanding at doing that. I appreciated them for that quality. However, I've never thought American conservatives had much value as true leaders...although (strangely enough) I thought Richard Nixon was an exception...and an efficient leader.

In 1964...the American conservatives of the South jumped ship from the Democrats and ran over to the Republicans. They were in a snit over the Civil Rights Act which LBJ signed. (Dirksen, a committed conservative helped LBJ pass it.)

In 1980, Ronald Reagan (for whom I voted), in concert with those southern defectors, started American conservative down the pathway to hell...and to the state where I consider it to be a cancer.

Reagan was a dynamic individual...and likeable beyond measure. But during his first inaugural address...I realized I had made an enormous mistake in voting for him...and the feelings I have that cause me to consider American conservatism to be a cancer on the American body politic were born.

Ronald Reagan started the trend (which is turning our nation into a sewer)…with the comment:

“…government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem.”

Those words began America’s decent into the political hell now polluting it. In my opinion, they were the most damaging words any American president had ever spoken...now eclipsed almost daily by Donald Trump.

Anyway...from that point on, the American conservative philosophy warped into varying forms of “I’ve got mine, screw you.”

That, whether you can see it or not; whether you can acknowledge it or not…is where it is right now.

There is no humanity to it.

I’ll stop here, but I’ll discuss it further if your response calls for it.

I appreciate you sharing that. I happen to love golf so props for working at a course. (Your board info states your location as Central New Jersey. It's surprising to hear one of the more conservative counties in the U.S. resides in NJ)

I'm a 45 year old white male and a life long Republican. For the most part I grew up in the SF Bay Area, Oakland and San Francisco. Not exactly a hot spot for conservatism. Not quite sure how became a Republican considering my environment but it happened.

Your comments about the old Republicans resonates as I'm reading a book on the history of entitlements in the country. It was usually the Democrats pushing to liberalize them more and more and Republicans fighting to do it on a smaller scale and reign in the spending.

I actually love that quote by Reagan and believe it to be spot on however I realize different strokes for different folks.

From my perspective regarding the I've got mine, screw you living in San Francisco we see that on a daily basis regarding housing. We don't build near enough housing in California which is a major reason our property values are so high. We have an extreme case of Nimbyism here. People fight tooth and nail to prevent new development in and around their neighborhoods. It's the I already live here and like my neighborhood as it is so too bad for you attitude.

I kind of lost my train of thought and where I was heading with this so I'll stop here.
 
More mental circles to deflect. I'm sorry that laws you support drive me to find it elsewhere. When I would otherwise be growing it in my home, keeping it in my home, and smoking it in my home.

Want to get back to the issue of you being a fiscal liberal that has no regard for peoples' tax dollars?

The laws are doing that. It's your choice to no grow it. If the laws were driving you, you wouldn't smoke it. Your choices drive you. Trying to blame it on something or someone else is very Liberal of you.

That issue has been settled when I proved you were wrong.

Tell you what. Keep smoking and having it in your car. Your luck will run out and you'll go to prison. Maybe you'll find a boyfriend there. Don't worry. I'll take care of your wife for you.
 
Not my fault you can't accept when you're being hypocritical. Just admit you support bloated government budgets, overcrowded prisons, and big government, stop deflecting from it. Is intellectual honesty hard for you?

I've proven that claim to be wrong.

Want to get back to your thinking that the defendant gets to decide on the punishment? Keep smoking and buying. You'll get caught, go to prison where you belong, and I'll be laughing at you on the outside of the fence knowing there isn't a damn thing you can do about it but whine like a little bitch.
 
The laws are doing that. It's your choice to no grow it. If the laws were driving you, you wouldn't smoke it. Your choices drive you. Trying to blame it on something or someone else is very Liberal of you.

It's driving me because the penalties are much harsher for growing it than just buying it. :dunno:

That issue has been settled when I proved you were wrong.

Tell you what. Keep smoking and having it in your car. Your luck will run out and you'll go to prison. Maybe you'll find a boyfriend there. Don't worry. I'll take care of your wife for you.

I'll tell you what: keep supporting prison overcrowding, bloated budgets, and big government. Keep supporting the annual burning of billions of dollars. You've been outed as a RINO pseudo-conservative with no respect for taxpayer dollars or personal liberty. My work is done.

Frankly, this shit is already legal recreationally in 9 states (not including D.C) and legal medically in 29 states. Soon it will be legal recreationally in all 50 states. Majority of Americans support legalization, and lawmakers are not far behind that. Despite you, and despite your pal Jeff Sessions. So keep wasting your breath proving what a joke you are. You and others behind the time like you are just delaying the inevitable.
 
I've proven that claim to be wrong.

No you haven't. You been deflecting. That is plainly clear.

Want to get back to your thinking that the defendant gets to decide on the punishment? Keep smoking and buying. You'll get caught, go to prison where you belong, and I'll be laughing at you on the outside of the fence knowing there isn't a damn thing you can do about it but whine like a little bitch.

Or, more likely, it'll be legalized in my state despite your whining (my state is actual on the list of potential states to legalize this year) and I'll be the one laughing when opioid addiction drops, violent crime drops, tax money is raised rather than wasted, and the country functions even better than before legalization rather than crumbling to the ground like you seem to think will happen.

And you will be made to look like the fool you are. I'll light one up for in your honor when that happens. :cig:
 
It's driving me because the penalties are much harsher for growing it than just buying it. :dunno:



I'll tell you what: keep supporting prison overcrowding, bloated budgets, and big government. Keep supporting the annual burning of billions of dollars. You've been outed as a RINO pseudo-conservative with no respect for taxpayer dollars or personal liberty. My work is done.

Frankly, this shit is already legal recreationally in 9 states (not including D.C) and legal medically in 29 states. Soon it will be legal recreationally in all 50 states. Majority of Americans support legalization, and lawmakers are not far behind that. Despite you, and despite your pal Jeff Sessions. So keep wasting your breath proving what a joke you are. You and others behind the time like you are just delaying the inevitable.

If you truly believed the laws saying you can't grow it are wrong, you'd grow it and fight it in court.

Keep smoking pot, boy. You'll get caught, be in prison, and unless you're in protective custody, become Bubba's bitch. The whiny ones like you are the first ones they go after for their "girlfriends".
 
No you haven't. You been deflecting. That is plainly clear.



Or, more likely, it'll be legalized despite your whining and I'll be the one laughing when opioid addiction drops, violent crime drops, tax money is raised rather than wasted, and the country functions even better than before legalization rather than crumbling to the ground like you seem to think will happen.

And you will be made to look like the fool you are.

Enjoy your time in prison knowing that I'll be caring for your woman while you're there.
 
If you truly believed the laws saying you can't grow it are wrong, you'd grow it and fight it in court.

That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. And we have 12 pages worth of dumb statements from you right here in this thread.

Keep smoking pot, boy. You'll get caught, be in prison, and unless you're in protective custody, become Bubba's bitch. The whiny ones like you are the first ones they go after for their "girlfriends".

This next one I light up is for you. :cig:
 
Enjoy your time in prison knowing that I'll be caring for your woman while you're there.

I'll light one up for you about this size when it's legal in all 50 states. I'll name it the CFM joint. It'll be in honor of you, buddy. And your royal stupidity.

90oqv9.jpg
 
That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. And we have 12 pages worth of dumb statements from you right here in this thread.



This next one I light up is for you. :cig:

Surely someone that claims to have such strong beliefs on an issue would do more than whine like a little bitch about it. Stand up for the cause and running your dick sucker is standing up, coward. If you actually stood up for the cause instead of only talking about what you support while being nothing more than the average pothead, I might give some credence to what you say. Since you all you want to do is talk, you've proven you don't care about the cause only being allowed to be a wasted pothead.

As long as you get caught and go to prison is my only concern.
 
I'll light one up for you about this size when it's legal in all 50 states. I'll name it the CFM joint. It'll be in honor of you, buddy. And your royal stupidity.

90oqv9.jpg

When I see the flames, I'll use an extinguisher to put them out and make sure it's done thoroughly.

Look at the loser that spent all his life doing nothing but smoking pot. Freeloaders on welfare make more of a contribution to society than he does and they make none at all.
 
Surely someone that claims to have such strong beliefs on an issue would do more than whine like a little bitch about it. Stand up for the cause and running your dick sucker is standing up, coward. If you actually stood up for the cause instead of only talking about what you support while being nothing more than the average pothead, I might give some credence to what you say. Since you all you want to do is talk, you've proven you don't care about the cause only being allowed to be a wasted pothead.

As long as you get caught and go to prison is my only concern.

Nice try. But no.

You can't fight it in court. Court decides sentencing, not the law. You fight it in the voting booths, which I am. And which the majority of Americans are. That's why it will be legal in all 50 states by 2020, and probably in my state specifically by the end of the year, despite all your bitching and moaning.
 
I appreciate you sharing that. I happen to love golf so props for working at a course. (Your board info states your location as Central New Jersey. It's surprising to hear one of the more conservative counties in the U.S. resides in NJ)

Three of the richest 10 counties in the nation are in New Jersey. Somerset County where I work is the 8th richest county in the nation...and has a Republican base thick as the Earth's mantle. In case you did not know it, by the way, the golf course most often chosen by Gold Digest as the best in the world is in New Jersey...Pine Valley.

https://www.golfdigest.com/gallery/americas-100-greatest-golf-courses-ranking

I'm a 45 year old white male and a life long Republican. For the most part I grew up in the SF Bay Area, Oakland and San Francisco. Not exactly a hot spot for conservatism. Not quite sure how became a Republican considering my environment but it happened.

Your comments about the old Republicans resonates as I'm reading a book on the history of entitlements in the country. It was usually the Democrats pushing to liberalize them more and more and Republicans fighting to do it on a smaller scale and reign in the spending.

I actually love that quote by Reagan and believe it to be spot on however I realize different strokes for different folks.

From my perspective regarding the I've got mine, screw you living in San Francisco we see that on a daily basis regarding housing. We don't build near enough housing in California which is a major reason our property values are so high. We have an extreme case of Nimbyism here. People fight tooth and nail to prevent new development in and around their neighborhoods. It's the I already live here and like my neighborhood as it is so too bad for you attitude.

I kind of lost my train of thought and where I was heading with this so I'll stop here.

The "different strokes" thought is the thing all of us should keep in mind.

We seem to have lost our way...the hatred between the political philosophies has become catastrophic. (I am as much at fault in that regard as any.)

I hope we find a way out of this dilemma...but I honestly don't see it improving. In fact, I see it deteriorating.

Sad!

We'll talk more!
 
The extinguisher will be big enough to handle whatever you bring. Don't worry.

Better make sure you bring enough. I will likely not be the only one. Are you going to personally put out all the joints people smoke in your neighborhood? At least you will not be wasting taxpayer dollars to do it. Me and the majority of Americans will make sure of that. :thumbsup:
 
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Three of the richest 10 counties in the nation are in New Jersey. Somerset County where I work is the 8th richest county in the nation...and has a Republican base thick as the Earth's mantle. In case you did not know it, by the way, the golf course most often chosen by Gold Digest as the best in the world is in New Jersey...Pine Valley.

https://www.golfdigest.com/gallery/americas-100-greatest-golf-courses-ranking



The "different strokes" thought is the thing all of us should keep in mind.

We seem to have lost our way...the hatred between the political philosophies has become catastrophic. (I am as much at fault in that regard as any.)

I hope we find a way out of this dilemma...but I honestly don't see it improving. In fact, I see it deteriorating.

Sad!

We'll talk more!

The wealth in NJ doesn't surprise me with its proximity to Manhattan.

I am familiar with Pine Valley and have spent a lifetime trying to get on it. Haha
 
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