Civil War museum gets rid of Confederate flag on new logo

[LV426]

Are you intimidated by any flag or symbol? I'm not and neither are most Americans. A 2015 Roper poll found 57% of American adults said the Confederate flag represented Southern pride, 33% said it represented racism, and 5% said both. A majority disagree with you. "In 2011, a Pew poll found that just 9% of the country had a positive reaction to seeing the Confederate flag, while 30% had a negative one, and 58% had neither."

But more importantly, the Bill of Rights still protects those freedoms. So you are spinning your wheels.

So if I went around your neighborhood, your church, your supermarket, the business you patronize, and your place of work, waving a flag about prominently displayed and in your face, that has a picture of your burning house with you and your family's charred remains on the front lawn and me dancing around them with a gas can, you wouldn't consider that intimidation? Be honest. I can tell when you're disingenuous.

You'd go crying to the cops right away, demanding I take it down, wouldn't you? You'd cry that it's intimidation. I'd say "nuh uh, it's free speech, and no one's intimidated by it except for you, so what's your fucking problem, get over it and stop trying to erase history and censor me, fascist".

 

[Flash]

Of course it matters!

Only to those who seek to impose their religious, political, or moral views on others.

Are you high? We ban public displays of shit all the time. Like naked breasts, for instance.

Stupid example. A naked breast is not the type of free expression protected by the 1st Amendment (although courts have ruled nudity is artistic expression). That makes as much sense as your claim that a person can assault or murder a Nazi because they pose a "threat."

Well, I mean it kinda does that too, doesn't it?

Not when they were fighting. The North was not fighting to end slavery.

So why should losers get participation trophies?

It somebody wants to build a monument or museum for their participation they are free to do so.

I'm not for tearing down anything.

 

[Flash]

Of course it matters!

Only to those who seek to impose their religious, political, or moral views on others.

Are you high? We ban public displays of shit all the time. Like naked breasts, for instance.

Stupid example. A naked breast is not the type of free expression protected by the 1st Amendment (although courts have ruled nudity is artistic expression). That makes as much sense as your claim that a person can assault or murder a Nazi because they pose a "threat."

Well, I mean it kinda does that too, doesn't it?

Not when they were fighting. The North was not fighting to end slavery.

So why should losers get participation trophies?

It somebody wants to build a monument or museum for their participation they are free to do so.

I'm not for tearing down anything.

 

[LV426]

Only to those who seek to impose their religious, political, or moral views on others.

You mean like erasing history by waving a flag about outside its proper context and pretending it's about "heritage"?

 

[LV426]

It somebody wants to build a monument or museum for their participation they are free to do so. I'm not for tearing down anything.

Until it's something that affects you personally, which is always the case with BoThSiDeRiStS.

Most of those monuments are built on public land. Like the one in Charlottesville.

So once again, you're ignorant of what you're talking about.

 

[LV426]

Stupid example. A naked breast is not the type of free expression protected by the 1st Amendment (although courts have ruled nudity is artistic expression). That makes as much sense as your claim that a person can assault or murder a Nazi because they pose a "threat."

Flash, you have been arguing the 1A is absolute, and now you cannot account for the fact that there are limits to free speech all the time.

 

[LV426]

Not when they were fighting. The North was not fighting to end slavery.

Flash, don't be stupid. The whole point of the war was the exertion of federal control over the states over the question of slavery.

You said yourself the flag represents slavery.

But it also represents white supremacy and intimidation, which you agree is the context within which the flag should be placed in a museum.

But outside of that context, the history of the flag is erased, wouldn't you agree? I mean, you'd have to agree if you're also arguing that tearing them down erases history.

Seems like you need a history lesson.

What does the flag represent that the Articles of Secession do not? (THIS IS THE FIFTH TIME I'VE ASKED THIS AND YOU'VE AVOIDED IT EVERY TIME).

 

[Flash]

You mean like erasing history by waving a flag about outside its proper context and pretending it's about "heritage"?

It's "proper context" is BS. People can choose whatever context they want to display any flag or symbol without your approval. Nobody has to pretend it is about heritage or anything else. It can represent heritage, pro-slavery, or white supremacy. They are all protected free expression no matter how much it makes you want to pee your pants.

 

[CFM]

Until it's something that affects you personally, which is always the case with BoThSiDeRiStS.

Most of those monuments are built on public land. Like the one in Charlottesville.

So once again, you're ignorant of what you're talking about.

Lots of monuments, including those to people like MLK, are built on public land. Why is it OK for that racist to have monuments on public land?

 

[Flash]

What does the flag represent that the Articles of Secession do not? (THIS IS THE FIFTH TIME I'VE ASKED THIS AND YOU'VE AVOIDED IT EVERY TIME).

Sure, it represents the states that wanted to secede to keep the status quo of slavery (and related issues).

As CFM claimed the U. S. flag represented a Constitution that allowed slavery to be legal, but we don't see it as intimidating everybody.

Would take away the freedom of Americans to display any flag or symbol they choose?

 

[LV426]

It's "proper context" is BS.

WOW! So you're reversing yourself now. You had been arguing this whole time that the benefit of that flag in a museum is because it's placed within its proper context, and now you're saying that context is BS. What a fucking joke. You can't even keep your argument straight here.

People can choose whatever context they want to display any flag or symbol without your approval.

Ah, but doing so erases history, doesn't it? Don't you care about the history, Flash? You've been arguing this entire time that the flag represents slavery and that it belongs ion museums and that taking them down erases history, but now you're saying none of that matters because people are entitled to their feelings.

Nobody has to pretend it is about heritage or anything else.

So then if it's banned, who the hell fucking cares?

If it now doesn't represent anything then it also doesn't have any history to erase by tearing it down, does it?.

So by saying banning the flag is "eRaSiNg HiStOrY", you're contradicting your own argument that the flag doesn't have any historical context.

So you started this thread arguing that tearing down the flag "eRaSeS hIsToRy" and over the course of this thread, you've now come to the argument that it represents nothing at all.

What a fucking asshole.

It can represent heritage, pro-slavery, or white supremacy.

Nope. By saying it represents "heritage" you are erasing the history of the flag. Unless you're saying heritage is synonymous with slavery and white supremacy. Is that what you're saying?

They are all protected free expression no matter how much it makes you want to pee your pants.

There are limits to free speech all the time, Flash.

 

[LV426]

Sure, it represents the states that wanted to secede to keep the status quo of slavery (and related issues).

As CFM claimed the U. S. flag represented a Constitution that allowed slavery to be legal, but we don't see it as intimidating everybody

Ah, but the Constitution was amended and now prohibits slavery, doesn't it? 13th Amendment. So the flag represents the abolition of slavery, thanks to the 13th Amendment.

Your lack of historical knowledge is painful. When you find yourself parroting the arguments of racists like CFM, that should be a big, red flag that you're on the wrong side of this one.

 

[CFM]

Sure, it represents the states that wanted to secede to keep the status quo of slavery (and related issues).

As CFM claimed the U. S. flag represented a Constitution that allowed slavery to be legal, but we don't see it as intimidating everybody.

Would take away the freedom of Americans to display any flag or symbol they choose?

That little shit has been hiding behind the ignore since he made claims about what he'd do if he looked me in the eye and I promptly gave him detailed directions to where I am.

 

[CFM]

Ah, but the Constitution was amended and now prohibits slavery, doesn't it? 13th Amendment. So the flag represents the abolition of slavery, thanks to the 13th Amendment.

Your lack of historical knowledge is painful. When you find yourself parroting the arguments of racists like CFM, that should be a big, red flag that you're on the wrong side of this one.

When you find yourself hiding behind the ignore after you claimed what you could do and I gave you directions, you should realize you're a coward.

That the 13th abolished slavery doesn't change that the U.S. flag represented slavery for damn near 90 years.

 

[Flash]

WOW! So you're reversing yourself now. You had been arguing this whole time that the benefit of that flag in a museum is because it's placed within its proper context, and now you're saying that context is BS. What a fucking joke. You can't even keep your argument straight here.

Lack of reading comprehension on your part. I argued that a Confederate flag should certainly be part of a Civil War museum, I said nothing about that being the only place it could be displayed. That is a stupid assumption.

Ah, but doing so erases history, doesn't it? Don't you care about the history, Flash? You've been arguing this entire time that the flag represents slavery and that it belongs ion museums and that taking them down erases history, but now you're saying none of that matters because people are entitled to their feelings.

A complete falsehood. You have a short memory. I argued today and previous days that I am a big defender of civil liberties and decried any effort of anybody to restrict flags or symbols. If you remember, you accused me of being anti-semitic because I called you a fascist for wanting to restrict those freedoms.

I have never argued the Confederate flag belongs only in a museum. I said it would be a poor museum that did not include the flag. Whether it erases history or not takes a backseat to constitutional freedoms. It has been a long time since the Civil War ended and I haven't seen anything erased, yet.

So then if it's banned, who the hell fucking cares?

71% of American adults do not want want to remove tributes to those who fought for the Confederacy from public places.

There are limits to free speech all the time, Flash.

As you probably don't know, those limits do not include symbolic speech (burning a flag, displaying a flag or symbol). Fascists like yourself want many more limits on our freedoms.

Concerning all the "erasing history" BS why don't we allow those who want to display it can do so and those who do not don't have to. You anger and hostility must be about more than a flag.

 

[LV426]

Lack of reading comprehension on your part. I argued that a Confederate flag should certainly be part of a Civil War museum, I said nothing about that being the only place it could be displayed. That is a stupid assumption.

You said at least half a dozen times that tearing the flag down "eRaSeS hIsToRy". It was the thrust of your argument. Now you're saying that it doesn't have context, which means it has no history to erase if it is torn down.

You're trying to have it both ways.

 

[Flash]

Ah, but the Constitution was amended and now prohibits slavery, doesn't it? 13th Amendment. So the flag represents the abolition of slavery, thanks to the 13th Amendment.

Your lack of historical knowledge is painful. When you find yourself parroting the arguments of racists like CFM, that should be a big, red flag that you're on the wrong side of this one.

So the U. S. flag represented slavery until the 13th Amendment? And the former Confederate states also ended slavery, so their flag must now represent the abolition of slavery--using your logic.

 

[LV426]

A complete falsehood. You have a short memory. I argued today and previous days that I am a big defender of civil liberties and decried any effort of anybody to restrict flags or symbols. If you remember, you accused me of being anti-semitic because I called you a fascist for wanting to restrict those freedoms.

I have never argued the Confederate flag belongs only in a museum. I said it would be a poor museum that did not include the flag. Whether it erases history or not takes a backseat to constitutional freedoms. It has been a long time since the Civil War ended and I haven't seen anything erased, yet.

LOL!

Flash, your entire argument was that taking them down "eRaSeS hIsToRy". Here's all the times you said so:

It was part of that history.

Also, wanting to ban something because we don't like its symbolic or historical significance is worse than its display (and reminiscent of Nazis).

Should we also close down the Civil War battleground museums that the South won? You want to lead us to a Fahrenheit 451 society.

And you went completely off topic to monuments and flags in public places unrelated to museums.

Using your logic we should ban the Articles of Secession because they glorify slavery and going to war to save it. After all, we can't let people know about those things. The history Nazis need to protect us from such knowledge.

A good history would include all of them.

Selective history is often misleading and designed to fit partisan prejudices.

A Civil War Museum that did not include a Confederate flag would be doing a incomplete job of portraying the war and the two sides.

You are the one who wants to erase the history of slavery by banning a flag that represents that slavery

Then we agree. The Confederate flag belongs in a museum as part of the history of our country and slavery.

I mean, I can do this all day...

 

[LV426]

71% of American adults do not want want to remove tributes to those who fought for the Confederacy from public places.

Who cares?

You just argued that the flag has no historical context. So if it doesn't, neither do the tributes, and therefore, can be torn down.

 

[LV426]

]As you probably don't know, those limits do not include symbolic speech (burning a flag, displaying a flag or symbol). Fascists like yourself want many more limits on our freedoms.

It's funny how you want to encourage the erasing of history and you call me the fascist.